A Question of Game Balance

[CthulhuBob]

Finally, after many years and many factors preventing me from doing so, I have switched my fantasy campaign to GURPS and so am running GURPS for the first time. Our first two game sessions have consisted mostly of character creation, but the second half of the second night was devoted to trying the combat system. This experience compels me to ask for the opinions of people here regarding the following observations I made that second night.

Everyone will always attack the eyes of their enemies. Especially characters with spears who are fighting giants.

To be surprised is to be dead.

Thank you,

[MIB 1473]

Originally Posted by CthulhuBob

Everyone will always attack the eyes of their enemies. Especially characters with spears who are fighting giants.

Happens a lot, yes, but once they figure out that -9 is a serious frickin' penalty (and that giants' height puts their eyes out of melee range, even with spears), it tends to go away. The more munchkinly attack is to hands or feet, to get stunning effects with less damage and at a managable penalty.

To be surprised is to be dead.

Depends entirely upon the GM. If you're surprised at close range, by deadly opponents, then yes - but your GM has to put you in that situation. I'll also note that Combat Reflexes is a steal.

[NorthSaber]

Would the characters think of that? Not particularly good role-playing if all you do is stab at someone's face, hoping to hit the eyes - even though they're obviously the most vulnerable part of the human anatomy.

[Kromm]

My players have found that if you have skill 20, say, you're better off swinging at the torso at -4 for Deceptive Attack. That gives -2 to enemy defenses, lets you use swing damage, and leaves you at skill 16, maximizing your odds of a critical hit. Thrusting at the eyes at -9 or eyeslits at -10, rolling at 10-11, and relying on thrust damage doesn't always cut it.

At skill 25, you're better off calling it a Rapid Strike at 19/19, making the first shot a feint, and making the second a Deceptive Attack to the torso at -4 (-2 to enemy defenses). That's likely to blast through defenses, still lets you use swing damage, and has pretty good odds of a critical hit. A single poke to the eyes or eyeslits at 15-16 is more viable than it was for the skill-20 fighter, but still likely to be dodged -- and thrust damage might not be enough against something with lots of HP and/or Injury Tolerance.

----

One thing you must realize about GURPS is that it doesn't assume that giants, dragons, experienced PCs, etc., are entitled to victory over "lesser" foes. It assumes that a well-placed blow (called shot, critical hit, etc.) by almost anyone can kill almost anyone -- especially if there's an equalizer such as surprise. "Tougher" and "greater" combatants are tough or great not because they can take more licks, but because they have good defense rolls and wear decent armor.

In fantasy, the scariest monsters are the ones with no vital areas (due to Injury Tolerance), the ones you can't surprise (thanks to sensory abilities or Danger Sense), the ones who can make you re-roll critical hits (via Luck), the ones with rude defense rolls (Dodge 14+), and the ones with massive armor (DR 10+). Giants aren't so tough -- they're oversized, easy-to-hit humans with soft flesh and vulnerable vital bits. Undead with no vitals, unerring life-sensing abilities, etc., are scarier. Insubstantial spirit-things are scarier still. Huge, elder worm- and squid-things with thick, rubbery hides and unearthly physiology are also frightening. A knight with high weapon skills, excellent arms and armor, and Luck is perhaps scariest of all.

At any rate, GURPS doesn't give PCs an unrealistic margin of error -- none of this "The surprise attack does N damage, so you're kind of hurt, but now you can retaliate." A good surprise attack is supposed to take out the victim, and the person launching the attack needn't be a "high-level assassin" or something to make it work. There's no strong association between power level and the ability to score critical hits, make called shots, or make surprise attacks. A very low-powered character who focuses on Stealth and one weapon skill can slay a very high-powered character who has poor Per and minimal armor almost every time. And lucky shots happen -- the high-powered hero without Luck to offset these has a huge chink in his armor, so to speak. Likewise, charging a foe who can kill you in one shot, with no thought to dodging or parrying, isn't a privilege that PCs have in GURPS. Berserkers simply die.

Those used to D&D-style gaming should remember that their D&D heroes' HP are represented in GURPS by good active defense scores; high Per to avoid surprise; advantages such as Combat Reflexes, Danger Sense, and Luck to back these things up; and having enough FP to use the Feverish Defense rules when things get really rough. GURPS HP are cheap because, really, any good shot can kill you, even if you're tough. All of your GURPS HP are like your last 1-2 D&D HP.

And of course the same goes for monsters and other NPC foes.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by CthulhuBob

To be surprised is to be dead.

Total surprise, denying even a defense roll, is pretty lethal. Attacks while the victims are aware but mentally stunned (-4 to defenses) are almost as bad. The moral of the story is that those with enemies should take watches, set noise-making alarms, cast protective magic, etc. The typical fantasy party needs at least one PC with good Per, Combat Reflexes, and preferably Danger Sense if they plan to travel where enemies can find them.

[The Wrathchild]

Originally Posted by CthulhuBob

Everyone will always attack the eyes of their enemies. Especially characters with spears who are fighting giants.

Doesn't happen much around my parts. The PC's, though powerful, do not sport combat skills in exess of 20 and mostly use their high skill to defeat opponent defences (deceptive striking). Also, they operate in a setting where killing with impunity is not viable. Furthermore, I think my players are of the both mature AND slightly squeamish sort, so they generally refrain from brutal nastiness - some of the PC's even sort the disadvantages to prove it.

To be surprised is to be dead.

As in real life ...

[Luther]

Originally Posted by Shumway

The more munchkinly attack is to hands or feet, to get stunning effects with less damage and at a managable penalty.

Yeah, cripple the foot (4 HPs for the average Joe) and he will fall down and have -3 to their defenses. If he fails the HT roll, he will be stunned, for a total -7 to defenses. With 8 HPs of damage the foot is destroyed.

[Gudiomen]

Originally Posted by Luther

Yeah, cripple the feet (4 HPs for the average Joe) and he will fall down and have -3 to their defenses. If he fails the HT roll, he will be stunned, for a total -7 to defenses. With 8 HPs of damage the feet is destroyed.

This actually happens a lot in my games, specially since even a not very strong character, and not incredibly skilled one can hit a foot and almost certainly turn the fight in his favor.

I agree about surprise, we started playing a low-powered group of characters (100cp 4e) in a gritty low-fantasy campaing, and we managed to take a group of 3 warrior-mages who were too distracted torturing our buddy to notice us and our bows. Surprise is also a heck of a way to start a ranged attack, gives you a few shots, and if you hit the first ones, they really count.

Inspite of this, the other guy in the party still got his face split in two, fighting is dangerous busyness.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Kromm

In fantasy, the scariest monsters are the ones with no vital areas (due to Injury Tolerance), the ones you can't surprise (thanks to sensory abilities or Danger Sense), the ones who can make you re-roll critical hits (via Luck), the ones with rude defense rolls (Dodge 14+), and the ones with massive armor (DR 10+).

I tihnk my players would claim that this applies to SF games, too. It doesn't take much DR to make a human sized robot able to soak a lot of rifle fire because they'll have 20+HP and take 1/3 damage from most rifles. The consensus is that unless it's a rogue vacuum cleaner nothing smaller than a HEAT rifle grenade will do.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Kromm

In fantasy, the scariest monsters are the ones with no vital areas (due to Injury Tolerance), the ones you can't surprise (thanks to sensory abilities or Danger Sense), the ones who can make you re-roll critical hits (via Luck), the ones with rude defense rolls (Dodge 14+), and the ones with massive armor (DR 10+).

I like rude defense rolls a lot. My current GURPS Supers character, La Gata Encantada, has Dodge 14, which can be pushed higher by Acrobatic Dodge or Daredevil. She's taken less damage than any of her teammates. Of course I also bought Regeneration as insurance, which is another useful option along those lines.