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Old 06-30-2017, 11:43 AM   #1
JanMikal
 
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Default Pistol Shotguns

I have a character who is a felinoid - descended from snow leopards. He is from the 1700s or so, and has been using a pair of flintlock pistols - the old-style wide wooden grips seem really suited to this kind of character, as snow leopards have large paws (and the character has Ham-Fisted, as a result).

Transported to the present, flintlock pistols are out of style and pretty useless in modern firefights (unless you have a dozen of them and someone to reload for you). So, he needs to transition to a new weapon, and I was thinking the most applicable modern analogue for his flintlocks would be a pistol-grip sawn-off shotgun. A pair of those would be terrifying in the right hands.

However, I am having some trouble figuring out the appropriate skills. Should I continue using Guns (Pistol) skill, with familiarity penalties for Black Powder to Cased Ammo et al.? Or should I learn Guns (Shotgun) because he is now using shotguns, even though they are pistol-style shotguns? Or should I even perhaps learn Guns (Musket) because I intend for him to be shooting slugs, rather than shot, and Guns (Musket) says:

Musket: Any kind of smoothbore long arm (usually, but not always, a black powder weapon) that fires a solid projectile.

That sounds like the description of a slug-firing shotgun to me.

Advice, please?
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Old 06-30-2017, 12:13 PM   #2
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Default Re: Pistol Shotguns

There is an article in one of the Alternate GURPS Pyramids that reduces Guns to three specialties: Pistol (including machine pistols and gyroc pistols), Longarm (including what is currently covered by Rifle, Shotgun, Musket, gyroc rifles, and the "two handed with optional stock" SMGs - like Prohibition-era Tommy guns), and LAW Rockets. (In addition to these, I tend to add Wrist Gun as a fourth specialty - introduced in a sidebar in High-Tech - for those weapons that are strapped to the wrist.)

I found it keeps things much simpler.

Regardless, I'd go with him still using Pistol since that is how these weapons are fired, regardless of whether it's shooting shot or slug, with familiarity penalties until he's used to the new loads.
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Old 06-30-2017, 12:31 PM   #3
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Default Re: Pistol Shotguns

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Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
There is an article in one of the Alternate GURPS Pyramids that reduces Guns to three specialties: Pistol (including machine pistols and gyroc pistols), Longarm (including what is currently covered by Rifle, Shotgun, Musket, gyroc rifles, and the "two handed with optional stock" SMGs - like Prohibition-era Tommy guns), and LAW Rockets. (In addition to these, I tend to add Wrist Gun as a fourth specialty - introduced in a sidebar in High-Tech - for those weapons that are strapped to the wrist.)

I found it keeps things much simpler.

Regardless, I'd go with him still using Pistol since that is how these weapons are fired, regardless of whether it's shooting shot or slug, with familiarity penalties until he's used to the new loads.

Yep, I like this way as well.

If your GM doesn't, I'd go with the lower of pistol or shotgun, or with a specialty name "pistol shotgun".
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Old 06-30-2017, 03:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: Pistol Shotguns

If he is used to firing flintlock pistols, a modern two barrel sawed off shotgun would likely be fairly close in weight and handling, stick with Guns (pistol).
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Old 06-30-2017, 04:17 PM   #5
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Default Re: Pistol Shotguns

There's a Shotgun Pistol in Ultra-Tech. It uses Guns (Shotgun).
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Old 07-01-2017, 02:02 AM   #6
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Default Re: Pistol Shotguns

I would note the Guns (Shotgun) skill does not distinguish between pistols and longarms, as long as they're shotguns.

If the character is used to firing an individual musket ball for ammunition, rather than powder and shot, I would also point out the rifled slugs on HT166... though, if they're a gunslinger, shotshells are one of few ways to get a RoF bonus, since they're still "single shots."
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Old 07-01-2017, 02:11 PM   #7
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Pistol Shotguns

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Originally Posted by WhiteFox1618 View Post
if they're a gunslinger, shotshells are one of few ways to get a RoF bonus, since they're still "single shots."
Gunslinger doesn't negate bonuses for rapid fire. Where are you getting that from?
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Old 07-01-2017, 02:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: Pistol Shotguns

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Gunslinger doesn't negate bonuses for rapid fire. Where are you getting that from?
It doesn't negate bonuses from rapid fire, but the bonus from Gunslinger itself does go down if you're firing at more than RoF 3. You only get the full Acc of your weapon if you're firing a one-handed weapon firing "single shots", defined as RoF 1-3. If the weapon is either two-handed, or a higher RoF, then you only get half the weapon's Acc. So a pistol shotgun could indeed be a way to get full Acc with Gunslinger, if you allow shotshells to count as "single shots". Personally, I'm a bit skeptical - I prefer to interpret Gunslinger a bit more fuzzily, and I don't think RoF 1X9 would fall into what I'd call a "single shot" anymore. But I can see the argument that, by the RAW, it's correct.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:09 AM   #9
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Default Re: Pistol Shotguns

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
It doesn't negate bonuses from rapid fire, but the bonus from Gunslinger itself does go down if you're firing at more than RoF 3. You only get the full Acc of your weapon if you're firing a one-handed weapon firing "single shots", defined as RoF 1-3. If the weapon is either two-handed, or a higher RoF, then you only get half the weapon's Acc. So a pistol shotgun could indeed be a way to get full Acc with Gunslinger, if you allow shotshells to count as "single shots". Personally, I'm a bit skeptical - I prefer to interpret Gunslinger a bit more fuzzily, and I don't think RoF 1X9 would fall into what I'd call a "single shot" anymore. But I can see the argument that, by the RAW, it's correct.
I went back to read things extra carefully to make sure our group hasn't been doin' it wrong this whole time (like that one 3.5ed advantage which shall remain unnamed):

On B58, Gunslinger says: "when firing single shots (RoF 1-3) from a one-handed weapon," etc...

B270 explanation of RoF says: mxn (e.g., 3x9) means the weapon can fire a number of shots per attack equal to the first number (m), and that each shot releases smaller projectiles equal to the second number (n).

Noteworthy that the rules describe the xn as "projectiles" rather than "shots."

The description above the little table on B373 refers to shots per attack, though, so maybe the xn of mxn doesn't count towards the Bonus to Hit... huh, never noticed that before. :/

Our group is usually pretty hard-nosed about gunslingers not using machine guns or assault rifles to hose the enemy down, it's an unspoken rule: you just don't do it, it's not proper. Shot-shells are okay, though being a more "point and click" action, rather than spraying everything in sight, if that makes any sense.

I say "one of the few ways" to get a RoF bonus, because while Gun-Fu has perks that extend the utility of Gunslinger, (frex, Army of One allowing someone to use Tank Cannon and hip fire dual HMG's with gunslinger),* I have yet to see any way for Gunslinger to take full advantage of High-Cyclic rates of fire.

*(Considering the rather stiff ST requirements for this, it's rarely been a problem in our games... apart from one particular bioroid cyborg battlesuit trooper who we don't talk about anymore). X3

The Gun-Fu perks are pretty OP in many cases, but they're a great way to let players distinguish their Gunslingers from each other... if one has Army-of-One and another has akimbo, they aren't gonna be stepping on each others toes so much)...

I think some of the most fun I've had in GURPS was with a half elf gunslinger with a pair of Gauss Shotgun Pistols, Dial a Yield, Akimbo, Bank Shot, and the full selection of warheads in UT (one particular crowning moment of awesome comes to mind wherein an evesdropping Robobug was spotted, and I managed to peg it with a Gauss SG Pistol loaded with a smallshot shell... I forget what the RoF was, but I think I got +5 for it, which made the difference on the to-hit roll).

At any rate, that's just my 2c... it's late, I'm rambling. I've played too many shot-gunnists, sorry. X3
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