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Old 06-25-2017, 01:16 PM   #1
Varyon
 
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Default [Powers] Melee Cone?

Apologies if this has been answered before (search showed up some mentions of it but no resolution), but how should one go about making a melee cone attack? This could be a sweeping sword of fire or similar. The easy solution would be to combine Melee Attack and Cone of the appropriate width, but RAW explicitly disallows such a combination. I can do a melee area effect (whirlwind-type attack) with a small Area Effect and Emanation, but no such luck with Cone. The closest I can think of - and I'm not certain this is RAW legal, as you aren't allowed to decrease Max Range independently* - would be to set 1/2D=Max, then reduce Range all the way down to the appropriate Reach. Of course, for a proper "melee attack" you'd want to add Blockable -10% as well, but that's optional. Is this actually a RAW legal option? If there is no RAW legal option for making a melee cone, what might be some appropriate pricing for a houserule?

To do either with Natural Weapon, I'm thinking you'd buy the Ranged +100% Enhancement, then build things as above. Is this correct?

*Technically, this build would be increasing 1/2D until it was equal to Max, then decreasing both down to the appropriate level, but that has the same effect - and same cost - as dropping Max independently would.
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Old 06-25-2017, 01:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

This might actually be best modelled with the Jet enhancement, actually. High-Tech gives a special All-Out Attack option (High-Tech p. 178) to weapons like flamethrowers, but I think the rules could be generalized for any attack that uses Jet, not just Burning Attacks.
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Old 06-25-2017, 02:15 PM   #3
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Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

I agree a jet is the typical way to go for this. Even some versions of Dragon Fire are done as jets.
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Old 06-25-2017, 02:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Melee Innate attacks follow the normal rules for melee attacks, so isn't this more sensibly a series of rapid strikes or a whirlwind attack?
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Old 06-25-2017, 03:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Melee Innate attacks follow the normal rules for melee attacks, so isn't this more sensibly a series of rapid strikes or a whirlwind attack?
One doesn't normally have to roll to hit targets within one's Area of Effect. A Cone is an AoE affect.
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Old 06-25-2017, 04:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

It's not "official" but I do allow combining Jet and Cone - note that this makes the length of your cone 10 yards, as per Jet.
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Old 06-25-2017, 06:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
One doesn't normally have to roll to hit targets within one's Area of Effect. A Cone is an AoE affect.
You should have to roll to hit targets with a sweeping melee attack, though.
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Old 06-25-2017, 07:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
You should have to roll to hit targets with a sweeping melee attack, though.
Unless it's built as an Emanation/AoE centered on one's self.

In GURPS you don't build to respect reality but rather to respect the effect you want.


A sweeping attack that cannot miss? Area + Emanation.

I'd probably reduced the cost to +25 and call it Area (Arc) and rule it can hit 3 contiguous hexes that are all within reach.

A sweeping attack that can miss but has the chance to hit everything in it's path? Area (Arc) +25%.

Sweeping attack that can hit a limited number (Y) of targets within Reach? Y-1 Extra Attacks (Multi Strike, +20%; Single Skill, -20%; Specific Weapon/Innate Attack Only, -??%).


[EDIT]
Note, because the latter is so much more costly than the former, if a Player said "How do I build a 'Blazing Sword' attack that let's me hit like, say, up to 3 enemies in a line all within reach?"

I'd point them to the first build (Area (Arc)) and say "Just slap on Limited Targets [3], -0%". And then they'd be only able to hit up to 3 enemies in row (within reach). If there were more than 3 targets in the area, things could get ... odd, but within reason we'd come to terms with how to deal with it. Say four regular sized figures? Only three are hit. A cluster all grappling? A chance to hit the wrong targets as well as the designated ones. A swarm? Well, it is an Area attack...

;)
[/EDIT]
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Last edited by evileeyore; 06-25-2017 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 06-25-2017, 09:01 PM   #9
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Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
This might actually be best modelled with the Jet enhancement, actually. High-Tech gives a special All-Out Attack option (High-Tech p. 178) to weapons like flamethrowers, but I think the rules could be generalized for any attack that uses Jet, not just Burning Attacks.
The Jet Enhancement and weapons like flamethrowers end up actually using very different rules, and I don't think the All Out effect is appropriate for the former. Additionally, I'm interested in abilities that function at melee ranges - that is, somewhere between C and 4 yards - not in 10 yard projected beams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Melee Innate attacks follow the normal rules for melee attacks, so isn't this more sensibly a series of rapid strikes or a whirlwind attack?
One issue is that I'm not entirely happy with the way those options work out, and since such strikes aren't realistic anyway, I'd rather have them as Advantages than somewhat-clunky Combinations (like Cleaving Strike) or the Whirlwind Attack Technique.

Well, sort of. I'm actually intending to replace Cleaving Strike and Whirlwind Attack with Techniques built using my version of Imbuements - which requires figuring out how to build them as Advantages first (with Natural Weapon as the base).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
You should have to roll to hit targets with a sweeping melee attack, though.
Agreed. I haven't yet decided if the character should roll separately for each foe, or just once and use that roll as the attack on each foe, but I do want a roll to be needed. I think calling for a roll and not using Large Area Injury actually works out as a Feature when combined with being able to target actual hit locations, although I could be persuaded that this is a net Limitation (particularly, as evileeyore sort of brings up, this makes the attack much less useful against Diffuse targets).

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
A sweeping attack that cannot miss? Area + Emanation.

I'd probably reduced the cost to +25 and call it Area (Arc) and rule it can hit 3 contiguous hexes that are all within reach.

A sweeping attack that can miss but has the chance to hit everything in it's path? Area (Arc) +25%.
So basically, instead of using a 360-degree Area, you cut the price and target size in half and have an Arc? That makes some sense, although it may be more GURPSy to reduce price by only 20%, so Area is +40%/level rather than +50%/level.

I really like this Arc suggestion, regardless of what price we ultimately decide on. Thanks, evileeyore - I think I'll go with this unless someone comes up with something better.
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Old 06-25-2017, 09:26 PM   #10
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Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Unless it's built as an Emanation/AoE centered on one's self.

In GURPS you don't build to respect reality but rather to respect the effect you want.


A sweeping attack that cannot miss? Area + Emanation.
Then the Melee limitation doesn't seem appropriate.
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