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Old 06-22-2017, 01:48 AM   #1
Hellboy
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Default Why the Control Point cost for grappling damage?

I don't really understand why you need to spend control points to do damage. Formerly doing things like strangling or bearhugs didn't reduce the -4 penalty that grappling victims had.

Losing CP can give back lost DX or ST to the grappling victim.

But if you had a secure hold in a neck or a torso, why would crushing what you are grabbing harder make them less restricted?
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Old 06-22-2017, 04:20 AM   #2
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Default Re: Why the Control Point cost for grappling damage?

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...12&postcount=2
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: Why the Control Point cost for grappling damage?

Neat... RISKING the CP doesn't seem all that bad. High ST guys will usually win their contest so loss would happen rarely and not be too weird.

Instead of a blatant "you lose all the CP you risked" (rather extreme) what about something like you lose as many CP as you lost the quick contest by, up to a maximum of the risked CP?

I'm going to assume the Peter he's referring to is Peter V. Dell’orto who is listed as a playtester and for 'additional material'.

Do you know if DouglasCole ended up publishing anything about this CP Risk update to TG in either Pyramid or Gaming Ballistic?

I was thinking that a strangle (after hand grapple to neck) and a bear hug (after limb grapple to torso) and worrying (bite grapple to almost anywhere) seemed kinda similar.

Perhaps CP should be risked for worrying (MA115) as well?

One thing about these though is... I was thinking (perhaps this is too favorable for grappling?) that instead of risking losing CP, you should actually get a chance to GAIN them.

The basis for this is the bite attack itself. Biting gives both a damage roll AND a CP roll. It's a hit with a free grapple attached to it!

So this sets the precedent that in some situations it should be okay to affix a free grapple (gain of CP) to certain attacks.

If a bite can add CP, then why shouldn't a worry be able to enhance it?

If a worry can enhance CP, then why not a strangle or a bear hug?

All of these involve consciously clamping down on the target. It would control them better and damage them at the same time.

We also get this effect from using a Cutting weapon to apply CP, TG14 says 1/2 the gained CP is damage.

It's hard to find much of a difference in what you'd be doing between improving your grip with a bite grapple and worrying... just how much can you do with your mouth?

Even with normal crushing teeth, improving your grip is probably going to cause some more damage. It should really just be combined with worrying into 1 attack.

Strangling/Bearhugs could be the same way! Non-damaging grappling improvements on the neck/torso could just be done by people who don't want to hurt the one they're grappling.

You could even make it an inherent component of grappling the neck or torso. Make strangling or bear hugs MANDATORY but if you don't want to hurt the person you're grappling, you just reduce your ST to 0 making it really unlikely you'll win the quick contest.

Although I personally think there should be a 'pull punch' skill that defaults to DX and you should only be able to reduce your ST unhindered by margin of success. Reducing it further should require a 2nd Pull Punch roll, but applying that margin of success should cost a DX penalty of 1 per additional ST reduced, and so on with the next roll costing 2 DX per ST.

Last edited by Hellboy; 06-23-2017 at 10:56 PM.
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