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Old 05-09-2017, 04:47 PM   #1
vicky_molokh
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Default [High-Tech] Reflex Sight + Scope: "can be used, but not with magnifying scopes"

Greetings, all!

I noticed that Reflex Sight (HT156) says that it cannot be used with a magnifying scope.
And yet when I asked some gun nuts, they said that no, there's no reason why the two can't be combined, and showed some pictures.
Of my own searches, I stumbled on this, which is even more illustrative.

So what gives? Is this an error that slipped through editing will never be errated, or is there some other reason why High-Tech says this?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: [High-Tech] Reflex Sight + Scope: "can be used, but not with magnifying scopes"

In real life, you can fit a Docter or another type of small red dot sight to the top or side of a larger optic.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: [High-Tech] Reflex Sight + Scope: "can be used, but not with magnifying scopes"

I suspect the intent is that the bonuses don't stack; you get one or the other.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: [High-Tech] Reflex Sight + Scope: "can be used, but not with magnifying scopes"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
I suspect the intent is that the bonuses don't stack; you get one or the other.
Why? A targeting LASER and a scope don't have such an incompatibility.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: [High-Tech] Reflex Sight + Scope: "can be used, but not with magnifying scopes"

Hans isn't prescient?
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: [High-Tech] Reflex Sight + Scope: "can be used, but not with magnifying scopes"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
I suspect the intent is that the bonuses don't stack; you get one or the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Why? A targeting LASER and a scope don't have such an incompatibility.
Well, you're only looking through one optic at a time.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: [High-Tech] Reflex Sight + Scope: "can be used, but not with magnifying scopes"

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Hans isn't prescient?
Do you mean that people didn't combine them like that IRL when HT was published?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Well, you're only looking through one optic at a time.
Are you? In the video, one is looking through both.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:17 PM   #8
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Default Re: [High-Tech] Reflex Sight + Scope: "can be used, but not with magnifying scopes"

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Hans isn't prescient?
Quite. Here's a modern system that shows how this works.

http://combatsportsupply.com/images/...il/SM19024.jpg

It has a 3x magnifier that can be moved into place behind the reflex sight.

Here's a video that shows how they work together, look for the green dot (Vicky's is also a video; I missed it my first read through)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xglRY0DUQg

I'd probably just let 'em stack: You always get the +1 to Guns skill because magnified or not, you can see the dot and you keep both eyes open; aim and you get another +1 for the magnifying scope (just so it does something).

Using On Target, where Aim is a skill roll, I would probably require the equivalent of a Fast-Aim roll to pick up the dot, because the field of view from which you can see said dot is narrower and requires more-proper cheek weld with the magnifier. If you make the roll, you get the +1 to Guns (proper alignment) instantly. If you then take the Aim action, that impacts your Guns skill and helps you aim. A successful Aim roll will ALSO give you the reflex sight bonus if you haven't earned it already, and also gain your either your Acc flat bonus or the die roll that I love the most. :-)
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Old 05-09-2017, 06:18 PM   #9
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Default Re: [High-Tech] Reflex Sight + Scope: "can be used, but not with magnifying scopes"

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Are you? In the video, one is looking through both.
If you've got a Docter sight mounted on another optic, you can only look through one at a time. If you've got a magnifying optic that can be slotted into place behind a red dot sight or an adjustable optic like the Schmidt & Bender, you can look through the magnifying optic while the red dot is visible, but I'd argue that in that case, it doesn't work as a collimating or reflex sight while magnified.

It's true that GURPS rules don't distinguish between different types of sights, reticules, lens quality or other features of optics, but realistically, there are other things that matter than simply the level of magnification.

At a certain point, a red dot is not more (or less) useful than some types of reticules or open sights. With magnifying optics, you've got a smaller field of vision and take longer to acquire a sight picture than with a non-magnifying red dot sight. I'd consider that falling on the other side of the invisible benchmark for a +1 to Guns, being instead replaced with a +1 or higher to Acc for the magnifying optic.
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Old 05-09-2017, 06:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: [High-Tech] Reflex Sight + Scope: "can be used, but not with magnifying scopes"

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Do you mean that people didn't combine them like that IRL when HT was published?
Reflex sights were very new, and as far as I know they weren't made to be used with magnifying sights yet.
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