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Old 05-09-2017, 10:27 AM   #31
whswhs
 
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Default Re: Psionic Powers: Question about a build

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Re-reading Blind Only, I can see interpreting it strictly mechanically. It doesn't require you _not_ to be able to see the target. It's just that being able to directly perceive the destination doesn't make things any easier for you. Mechanically, "Blind Only" just moves the default state for Warp rolls by -5 success and doubles FP (2 FP instead of 1, that is).

Imagine if the Limitation were named "Difficult Warps (-50%)". The word "blind" and the bit about coordinates can be seen as fluff text. Perhaps the Limitation is there just to make the Exoteleport ability harder to use, and also cheaper..
"Target" is ambiguous here; I think you are using it to mean Destination, but it could mean Subject.

I don't have a problem with your comments about the Destination. I'm assuming that (a) you usually will be teleporting the Subject to a Destination you can see, since you are defining it in relation to the Subject and you can see the Subject but that (b) you still define the Destination as "so many yards from the Subject in such and such direction," not as "above the middle of that swimming pool over there." Blind Only isn't about where you can see the Destination; it's about how you identify the Destination, by coordinates rather than visually.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:31 AM   #32
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Default Re: Psionic Powers: Question about a build

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
FWIW I'm in the camp that things like Alternate Form and Warp should be set up so they are one-second abilities (and only one second abilities) before being part of an affliction, to avoid just this kind of argument :P
Since Affliction says that the effect takes place *immediately*, shouldn't that be zero second abilities? I mean, "as soon as he is hit" and "immediately teleports the subject" seem unambiguous.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:38 AM   #33
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Default Re: Psionic Powers: Question about a build

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Since Affliction says that the effect takes place *immediately*, shouldn't that be zero second abilities? I mean, "as soon as he is hit" and "immediately teleports the subject" seem unambiguous.
Most of such things (except warp and shapeshift) require actions to activate, but they're one second actions, so I decided to settle on that as the bench-mark. Moving to "Everything needs to be Reflexive" doesn't actually bother me either, it just means more abilities need to be modified before being put on Affliction and that's just a wee bit more fiddly.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:06 AM   #34
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Default Re: Psionic Powers: Question about a build

Okay. Let me give you all the actual builds I'm comparing. The first assumes that the preparation time modifier is wiped out by making Warp the effect of an Affliction; the second assumes you have to buy it down to "none" before it can be the effect of an affliction.

Assuming the teleporter has IQ 11, Will 11, and Teleportation Talent 1,

he can teleport an object weighing up to 24 pounds up to 100 yards away from himself;
he has to win a Quick Contest of Will+Talent 12 vs. the object's HT to make the attempt;
he has to roll IQ (12) to send it up to 10 yards, IQ-1 (11) for up to 20 yards, or IQ-2 (10) for up to 100 yards, which is his limit;
he can send it to a place he sees over CCTV, or to one he's visited but can't see, at a -2 penalty to IQ, but only within his range limit.

Here are the two builds:

Statistics: Affliction 1 (HT; Advantage: Warp (Exoteleport, -50%; Mental Carrying Capacity, +20%; Range Limit, 100 Yards, -40%), +300%; Malediction, -1/yard, +100%; Melee Attack, Reach C, -30%; Psionic, -10%) [46].

Statistics: Affliction 1 (HT; Advantage: Warp (Exoteleport, -50%; Mental Carrying Capacity, +20%; Range Limit, 100 Yards, -40%; Reliable, +10, +50%), +800%; Malediction, -1/yard, +100%; Melee Attack, Reach C, -30%; Psionic, -10%) [86].

The only difference is that the first one assumes the instantaneous effect is automatic; the second assumes you have to buy it. (If he didn't buy it, he would be rolling at IQ-10 or worse, which would make the power useless. . . .)
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:18 PM   #35
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Default Re: Psionic Powers: Question about a build

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Okay. Let me give you all the actual builds I'm comparing. . . .
I think there is a deeper can of worms implied in assessing these builds. When you're building the Advantage (whatever it is) to be Afflicted, do you build it as if you are using it, or the subject is using it? Can you impose a fatigue cost along with an Advantage?
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:24 PM   #36
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Default Re: Psionic Powers: Question about a build

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I think there is a deeper can of worms implied in assessing these builds. When you're building the Advantage (whatever it is) to be Afflicted, do you build it as if you are using it, or the subject is using it? Can you impose a fatigue cost along with an Advantage?
Since the Subject is not choosing to use it, I don't think they should be treated as using it. In this particular case, the Subject will often be an inanimate object that neither has nor uses fatigue. If I teleport a hand grenade with the pin pulled into the middle of a group of enemies, for example, the grenade has no FP to spend, and for that matter, no IQ to roll against.

But I don't think that I should be paying a fatigue cost, either, unless that's explicitly paid for in the build of the ability. The ability I'm using is Affliction, not (in this case) Warp. Though perhaps there could be an enhancement to Affliction: Can Spend FP on Advantage Granted, +10%. What do you think?
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:25 PM   #37
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Default Re: Psionic Powers: Question about a build

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I'm looking at the Exoteleport ability in GURPS Psionic Powers. It bases the Affliction on the advantage Warp (Blind Only, -50%; Exoteleport,
-50%; Modified Capacity, 1 lb., -30%; Reliable 10, +50%) [20].

Why is Blind Only there?
Both to simplify the ability and to keep the cost down.

Using Blind Only means that the user doesn't have to deal with two different modifiers based on whether he can see the destination or not; everything is a simple, flat roll. And it is also the cheapest way to build a teleportation power that has the capability of teleporting to an unseen location.

Removing Blind Only (and compensating commensurately by removing 5 levels of Reliable) would make the power more expensive by 25 points and require the user to be able to see the destination. The only real improvement is that the FP cost to buy off penalties becomes 1 FP per -1 instead of 2 FP per -1.

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But why can't you use Exoteleport, for example, to teleport a weapon from an adversary's hand to the floor in front of you, which you can see perfectly well?
You can. "Blind Only" doesn't mean that you cannot use the ability if you can see the destination! It means that all destinations, seen or unseen, are treated as a blind teleport.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:06 PM   #38
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Default Re: Psionic Powers: Question about a build

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Originally Posted by PK View Post
Both to simplify the ability and to keep the cost down.

Using Blind Only means that the user doesn't have to deal with two different modifiers based on whether he can see the destination or not; everything is a simple, flat roll. And it is also the cheapest way to build a teleportation power that has the capability of teleporting to an unseen location.

Removing Blind Only (and compensating commensurately by removing 5 levels of Reliable) would make the power more expensive by 25 points and require the user to be able to see the destination. The only real improvement is that the FP cost to buy off penalties becomes 1 FP per -1 instead of 2 FP per -1.

You can. "Blind Only" doesn't mean that you cannot use the ability if you can see the destination! It means that all destinations, seen or unseen, are treated as a blind teleport.
I wonder if you can provide some insights into how/why you joined the affliction and the warp thru a Feature.
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:02 PM   #39
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Default Re: Psionic Powers: Question about a build

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Originally Posted by PK View Post
Both to simplify the ability and to keep the cost down.

Using Blind Only means that the user doesn't have to deal with two different modifiers based on whether he can see the destination or not; everything is a simple, flat roll. And it is also the cheapest way to build a teleportation power that has the capability of teleporting to an unseen location.

Removing Blind Only (and compensating commensurately by removing 5 levels of Reliable) would make the power more expensive by 25 points and require the user to be able to see the destination. The only real improvement is that the FP cost to buy off penalties becomes 1 FP per -1 instead of 2 FP per -1.
You know, when I take those two together, it seems that Blind Only applies a -5 penalty, and Reliable 5 applies a +5 bonus, for a net 0 modifier. That much would be a lot like a zero cost feature. And you aren't hindered in any way from using the Mark One Eyeball to designate the Destination; you're just thinking "that far from him that way" instead of thinking "there!" So that's a lot like a zero cost feature. The only substantial difference seems to be that instead of only being able to hit only targets you can see (directly or indirectly) or remember well, you can also hit targets defined by mathematical coordinates, such as you might get from a Forward Observer. That's a gain. But you have -50% for Blind Only and +25% for Reliable 5, which is a net -25%. That is, something that improves your capabilities (modestly) relative to the baseline RaW ability is treated as a limitation!

I don't know about you, but when I see that, I think, "Something's not right here." In fact I'd almost take it as a reductio ad absurdum: If you make those assumptions, and you get the result that an improvement in capabilities is a -25% change in cost, which amounts to 25 points, well, that proves that one of your assumptions must be wrong.

In this case, I'd say that the assumption that's wrong is that "Blind Only" still allows you to eyeball a Destination. I'll stipulate that that's one way you can take "only." But another way to take "only" is as "you have to have knowledge of a set of coordinates that specify the exact distance and direction," meaning a set of actual numbers. And it's not clear that you can get those numbers just by eyeballing. Another way to take it is that you have to spend some amount of time both measuring the distance and doing the math—maybe making an IQ roll, since it's fairly simple vector subtraction, but people can mess that up, especially under battlefield conditions.

I mean, turn things around. Suppose that it's standard for Warp to be Blind Only. Now, you get the offer to buy an added trait: "Can't warp to a place you've never seen." And you're told that this will be a +33% enhancement. I think you'd say, "What the ***** are you talking about? That's not an enhancement, it's a limitation!" Well, it seems just as obviously wrong to me if you read it the other way. Even if you ignore the ability to port to a set of coordinates, as something that hardly anyone will actually use, what you've got is a "modifier" that makes no difference and saves you 25 points. . . .
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Old 06-24-2017, 04:32 AM   #40
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Default Re: Psionic Powers: Question about a build

I think you're seriously underestimating what you lose with Blind Only. How many meters away from your bedroom are you right now? Do you know the direction and distance to the scene on that tv screen? Blind is okay for getting to the other side of a wall, or straight up into the sky, but even judging the distance to a balcony across the theater might warrant some kind of roll.
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