Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-27-2017, 11:18 AM   #71
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#40): Discriminatory Senses, Sensitive Touch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
How do you pick pockets or locks, massage people or carve scrimshaw without a sense of touch?

If Telekinesis can perform all the same tasks as a pair of hands, it needs some equivalent sense to the sense of touch to do it.
Well, I have to grant that that argument carries a good bit of weight, at least for what TK is stated to be capable of in the Basic Set. Let's look at the details, though.

* There are forms of TK where this may well not apply. Attraction/Repulsion, for example, is effectively the tractor/pressor beams of space opera. Magnetism may also not register as "tactile"; there are Detect Magnetism and Detect Magnetic Materials, after all.

* Not all aspects of "touch" are included in TK, I think. Can you tell, using your telekinetic hands, whether something you're picking up with them is hot or cold? Can you hold them up to a fire and feel the warmth? Can they be injured and cause you to feel pain? If you telekinetically grab someone, and they have an attack with Contact Agent and Aura, does it apply to you, or to your invisible "hands"?

* Even restricting to the purely sensory and mechanical dimensions of "touch," TK might not need all of them. You have to be able to tell when your "hands" have encountered a surface, rather than have them sink into it; so they have to be able to tell that a solid (or liquid) surface is there. You probably have to be able to tell how much resistance is being given to the force you're applying. But you may not need to be able to judge textures by sliding your "fingertip" along a surface, or read Braille telekinetically (though now I think of it, that's kind of a neat image). Imagine a robot with "fingers" whose interiors contain very sensitive strain gauges, so it can apply very precisely measured forceópick up an egg without breaking it, for exampleóbut it has no cutaneous receptors that can feel the smoothness of eggshell.

* Can you reach inside a solid object and manipulate its interior? The idea that TK miraculously aids lockpicking seems to suggest this. If you just had four hands instead of two, it wouldn't be such a big deal.

* What about this? TK does give you tactile feedback. But normal use of it is visually guided, just as normal use of hands is visually guided. To use it nonvisually, you need to buy "Work by Touch" as a technique, and it's a different technique for TK than for your hands.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

A human being should know how to live fast, die young, and leave a beautiful corpse. Specialization is for insects.
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 11:33 AM   #72
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#40): Discriminatory Senses, Sensitive Touch

This old post of Kromm's is relevant to the question of TK and tactile feedback. I don't know of anything that has happened since then to justify changing that ruling.
Not another shrubbery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 02:00 PM   #73
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#40): Discriminatory Senses, Sensitive Touch

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Well, I have to grant that that argument carries a good bit of weight, at least for what TK is stated to be capable of in the Basic Set. Let's look at the details, though.

* There are forms of TK where this may well not apply. Attraction/Repulsion, for example, is effectively the tractor/pressor beams of space opera. Magnetism may also not register as "tactile"; there are Detect Magnetism and Detect Magnetic Materials, after all.

* Not all aspects of "touch" are included in TK, I think. Can you tell, using your telekinetic hands, whether something you're picking up with them is hot or cold? Can you hold them up to a fire and feel the warmth? Can they be injured and cause you to feel pain? If you telekinetically grab someone, and they have an attack with Contact Agent and Aura, does it apply to you, or to your invisible "hands"?

* Even restricting to the purely sensory and mechanical dimensions of "touch," TK might not need all of them. You have to be able to tell when your "hands" have encountered a surface, rather than have them sink into it; so they have to be able to tell that a solid (or liquid) surface is there. You probably have to be able to tell how much resistance is being given to the force you're applying. But you may not need to be able to judge textures by sliding your "fingertip" along a surface, or read Braille telekinetically (though now I think of it, that's kind of a neat image). Imagine a robot with "fingers" whose interiors contain very sensitive strain gauges, so it can apply very precisely measured forceópick up an egg without breaking it, for exampleóbut it has no cutaneous receptors that can feel the smoothness of eggshell.

* Can you reach inside a solid object and manipulate its interior? The idea that TK miraculously aids lockpicking seems to suggest this. If you just had four hands instead of two, it wouldn't be such a big deal.

* What about this? TK does give you tactile feedback. But normal use of it is visually guided, just as normal use of hands is visually guided. To use it nonvisually, you need to buy "Work by Touch" as a technique, and it's a different technique for TK than for your hands.
This is indeed what I've always assumed, yes.

It occured to me, however, that instead of buying Work By Touch for multiple skills, at some point, Sensitive Touch that worked with Telekinesis would be simpler and cheaper.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 02:44 PM   #74
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#40): Discriminatory Senses, Sensitive Touch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
It occured to me, however, that instead of buying Work By Touch for multiple skills, at some point, Sensitive Touch that worked with Telekinesis would be simpler and cheaper.
In fact, it becomes cheaper at two skills, if you assume the standard cost, or three skills, if you charge extra for being usable at range.

I would say, though, that you could plausibly have Sensitive Touch for TK without having the extra nerve endings to give it to you for your body (perhaps by mentally shrinking your TK "hands"; and you might be able to have it in your body without having it in your TK "hands." These are two different sets of manipulators, after all. I'd call +50% for the Telekinetic modifier on Sensitive Touch, which would make it work for TK hands instead of physical hands. At that point you avoid Work by Touch penalties for a potentially unlimited range of skills.

Another option, though, is to buy Talent for TK. Surely that ought to compensate for working by touch! And if you take the maximum 20 points, you have only a -1 penalty for working blind, and you get a lot of other benefits.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

A human being should know how to live fast, die young, and leave a beautiful corpse. Specialization is for insects.
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advantage, advantage of the week, discriminatory senses, sensitive touch, week, [basic]

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.