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Old 09-18-2017, 12:55 PM   #1
Htoad2020
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default Size Modifier/Attributes

I'm looking for a table or calculations to take the Attributes and DR etc... from a +3 Size Modifier (or lager) and making it -7 Size Modifier (or smaller) let alone smaller to larger.
Thank you for your help.
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Old 09-18-2017, 01:27 PM   #2
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Size Modifier/Attributes

Are you asking about re-scaling a living creature? A machine? Some details would be helpful here.

If you're asking about doing this with a living being, Bio-Tech has some rules for re-scaling biological organisms, at least ones based on roughly human physiology. That will get you attributes, though I don't think they cover DR. DR is hard to do anyway, because quite a lot of it is going to depend, not on size, but just whatever the armor is made of - a SM -7 turtle might have DR 1 or 2 still, whereas an SM +3 elephant reduced to SM -7 could quite easily have no DR to speak of.
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Old 09-18-2017, 01:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: Size Modifier/Attributes

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Are you asking about re-scaling a living creature? A machine? Some details would be helpful here.

If you're asking about doing this with a living being, Bio-Tech has some rules for re-scaling biological organisms, at least ones based on roughly human physiology. That will get you attributes, though I don't think they cover DR. DR is hard to do anyway, because quite a lot of it is going to depend, not on size, but just whatever the armor is made of - a SM -7 turtle might have DR 1 or 2 still, whereas an SM +3 elephant reduced to SM -7 could quite easily have no DR to speak of.
I've converted 36 AD&D Dragons now I want to make them smaller. SM -7
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Old 09-18-2017, 02:26 PM   #4
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Default Re: Size Modifier/Attributes

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Originally Posted by Htoad2020 View Post
I'm looking for a table or calculations to take the Attributes and DR etc... from a +3 Size Modifier (or lager) and making it -7 Size Modifier (or smaller) let alone smaller to larger.
Try GURPS GULLIVER Mini for 4e.
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Old 09-18-2017, 03:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: Size Modifier/Attributes

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Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
This is for humaniods not dragons and it just for ST, HT and DR I need it in DX, IQ and hit points plus movement.

Last edited by Htoad2020; 09-18-2017 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 09-18-2017, 04:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: Size Modifier/Attributes

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Originally Posted by Htoad2020 View Post
This is for humaniods not dragons and it just for ST, HT and DR I need it in DX, IQ and hit points plus movement.
Hit points, being based on strength, will scale in the same manner as strength.

Dex and IQ do not really scale.

From our experience with actual animals, intelligence does not depend too greatly on size. The size of a brain required for a given level of behavioral complexity seems to scale as roughly a .75 power of body size, but, in general, animals will tend to have evolved brains about as large as they need (and no larger), so larger dragons (or whatever) will tend to have about the same IQ stat as smaller ones, but manage to do so with brains that take up a somewhat lower proportion of their total body mass.

There is a stereotype correlating large size with low dexterity, but I am not convinced that reality backs that up. The elephant, quite apart from the remarkable "manual" dexterity with which it maneuvers its trunk, is certainly no klutz in its gross movements.
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Old 09-18-2017, 05:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Size Modifier/Attributes

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Originally Posted by Htoad2020 View Post
This is for humaniods not dragons and it just for ST, HT and DR I need it in DX, IQ and hit points plus movement.
It applies to all creatures, not just humanoids. Look at the sections Notes on nonhumanoids and Working backward to apply it to dragons. As far as DX and movement, that's in the Optional Extras. As stated above HP scale with ST, which is even stated in step 4. It also says to use the rules in Biotech for altering IQ based on size, but I agree with ravenfish that there isn't really any correlation. For RL animal examples, a wood turtle is smarter than a snapping turtle or giant tortoise, despite being smaller, and a corvid like a raven or magpie is much more intelligent than an ostrich.
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Old 09-18-2017, 06:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: Size Modifier/Attributes

While a larger creature can fit more brain power, there's no strong reason to think it will actually do so, and in any case since you're converting magical beasts mundane scaling laws are of limited relevance.

On the issue of DX, a large creature will have larger manipulators, and will thus have issues with manipulating small objects. It will also take somewhat longer to perform any given action. It's not clear that this is best implemented as DX, though.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:15 AM   #9
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Default Re: Size Modifier/Attributes

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It also says to use the rules in Biotech for altering IQ based on size,
I need it at -6 or -7 SM and thank you.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:58 AM   #10
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Default Re: Size Modifier/Attributes

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Originally Posted by Htoad2020 View Post
I need it at -6 or -7 SM and thank you.
Ok. The rules in Bio-Tech are based on how much the creature is being scaled, rather than SM as such. So something half the height of a human uses the 1/2 scale modifications, something one third uses the 1/3 mods, and so forth. The table in Bio-Tech only goes down to 1/6th scale, and you're talking about going from SM +3 (7 yards) to SM -7 (5 inches), which is roughly 1/50th scale, so the table needs to be extrapolated. Just taking the numbers on the existing table and extrapolating them roughly, without trying to do any basis in realism (which I lack the knowledge to do), 1/50th scale would suggest -35 to IQ for going from SM +3 to SM -7.

However, I want to emphasize again that this a) is based on a system for human genetic engineering, not any other creatures, b) is assuming you're modifying an existing brain, evolved for functioning at its original size, and trying to modify it to function at a smaller size, rather than developing new structures better-adapted for the new scale, and c) isn't taking magic into account at all. In the situation you've described, shrinking D&D-style dragons either magically or statting out smaller versions that presumably pre-exist and have evolved for their size, the IQ penalty above probably doesn't make sense at all.
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