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Old 03-21-2017, 03:43 PM   #1
Stripe
 
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Default Dungeon Fantasy Players and GMs: What Tips You Would Give to a New Player?

Greetings!

To people who actually play or have played GURPS Dungeon Fantasy with other players and a game master, and to GM's who have real, actual game-play experience running sessions of DF, what are a few tips you would give new players and GM's?

Assume the person is familiar with the fantasy* genre, The World's Most Popular RPG, and also knows at least the basics of GURPS, but has never played or GM'ed Dungeon Fantasy. This isn't advice for people who are new to table-top role-playing games or GURPS.

Assume only the Basic Set, Magic, Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, Dungeon Fantasy 2: Dungeons, and Dungeon Fantasy 3: The Next Level are being used. Assume no other material is in-play.

Some people would rather fill out a questionnaire. For those, here it is:


Advice to players:

1. What is the single most important piece of advice you would give to a new Dungeon Fantasy player?

2. What are 3-5 tips you would give to a player who is familiar with fantasy* role play but inexperienced with the town-and-down dungeon crawl style of play?

3. For players who will assume a front-line warrior character template (e.g., Knight), what tips you would give to help them play efficiently and effectively?

4. For players who will assume a character using a caster template (e.g., Wizard), what tips you would give to help them play efficiently and effectively?

5. For players who will assume a template focused on ranged combat (e.g., Scout), what tips you would give to help them play efficiently and effectively?


Advice to game masters:

1. What is the single most important piece of advice you would give to an experienced GURPS GM switching from running fantasy* games focused mainly on role playing to running Dungeon Fantasy hack-and-slash games?

2. What are some differences between fantasy* games and Dungeon Fantasy that you would highlight and advise a GM how to handle?

3. What are some other important pieces of advice you would give an experienced GURPS GM about running DF games?


Thanks to everyone with Dungeon Fantasy game play experience for their advice!


* Fantasy is a fiction genre set in an imaginary universe, often but not always without any locations, events, or people from the real world. Most fantasy uses magic or other supernatural elements as a main plot element, theme, or setting. Magic and magical creatures are common in many of these imaginary worlds. Fantasy is generally distinguished from the genres of science fiction and horror by the expectation that it steers clear of scientific and macabre themes, respectively, though there is a great deal of overlap among the three, all of which are subgenres of speculative fiction.
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy Players and GMs: What Tips You Would Give to a New Player?

Don't just shout "I attack!" and roll the dice. Maneuver choice, movement, positioning, hit location, and attack options are all really important!

I had one player who never seemed to grasp this (even after months of playing), it was frustrating for her, for me, and for the other players.

Do figure out what your common attacks are in advance, and write them on your sheet with all the modifiers. The Scout's player did this and she was extremely fast and effective every turn.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 03-21-2017 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy Players and GMs: What Tips You Would Give to a New Player?

1. What is the single most important piece of advice you would give to a new Dungeon Fantasy player?

Have fun. ;-)

Other bits of advice: Combat in GURPS is very small increments. Don't let that stop you from performing a long action. Tell your GM what you want to do, then work out what happens each turn. Go for that crazy plan!


2. What are 3-5 tips you would give to a player who is familiar with fantasy* role play but inexperienced with the town-and-down dungeon crawl style of play?

Have fun! Seriously this time. The game is about killing an looting. Don't take things too seriously... just go with the flow.


3. For players who will assume a front-line warrior character template (e.g., Knight), what tips you would give to help them play efficiently and effectively?

Sword and Board with good Blocking and the best armor you can get. Or light armor and GREAT weapon skill for parry. Or a stupid amount of HP. Pick one.


4. For players who will assume a character using a caster template (e.g., Wizard), what tips you would give to help them play efficiently and effectively?

Missile spells are slow, can cost a lot of energy, and might miss. If you go that route stick with "explosive" versions, power them all the way up, then toss them on the ground behind the enemy... but watch out for blasting your allies.

Otherwise stick with area spells. What's better than a fire ball that targets one guy and might miss? A room full of fire than burns everyone in it.

If you insist on direct damage... go with Dehydrate!


5. For players who will assume a template focused on ranged combat (e.g., Scout), what tips you would give to help them play efficiently and effectively?

It can get boring doing one thing over and over... so give some thought to your backup combat skill.

Bodkin Arrows for DR reduction. Arm ST to get better damage.

Have magic arrows, they can be cheap and give some variety.


Advice to game masters:

1. What is the single most important piece of advice you would give to an experienced GURPS GM switching from running fantasy* games focused mainly on role playing to running Dungeon Fantasy hack-and-slash games?

If you are anything like me, the biggest problem is making things too complicated. Keep it simple and fun.


2. What are some differences between fantasy* games and Dungeon Fantasy that you would highlight and advise a GM how to handle?

DF is about killing and looting... so have interesting things to kill... and interesting rewards.


3. What are some other important pieces of advice you would give an experienced GURPS GM about running DF games?

Have fun ;-)
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy Players and GMs: What Tips You Would Give to a New Player?

Have fun. We here are constantly arguing about different rules but don't worry about them too much during the game. If you aren't sure about something then roll the dice and make something up; you can check the rules before the next session. Have fun.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:43 PM   #5
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy Players and GMs: What Tips You Would Give to a New Player?

In that other game, called shots are useless except against a bullette. In GURPS, always call your shots. My group still talks about two instances where big end bosses were killed by one person in one second (one with one arrow through the eyeslit while he was monologuing).
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy Players and GMs: What Tips You Would Give to a New Player?

For melee fighters, move is more important that it might at first seem. Move 4 should be considered a minimum.
Fast-draw (weapon) and a lanyard can save a lot of time in combat. Biggest hit against axe/mace weapons is the lack of fast-draw.

Luck. It isnt mandatory, but it can be such a clutch advantage it seems like it is mandatory.

For ranged characters: fancy arrows are relatively cheap and can make a huge difference. Meteoric, fine, balanced arrows sharpened with a dwarven whetstone are great for special occasions and bosses. +1 to hit/+2 damage can be a huge bonus to non-specialist ranged users too.

Access to multiple damage types is important for everyone. Cut is generally useful, but impale/pi have the vitals as an important option vs living, and crushing in the hands of someone strong can crowd control with knockback.

A decent melee skill on a Wizard can pay big dividends. Thrusting a deathtouch charged staff over the shoulders of your front line fighters can be an FP friendly way to add a lot of damage to a fight... but only if you can hit. Use a spear for an impaling option (and cut, with tip slash) that can fall back on a staffs better parry when needed.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:14 AM   #8
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy Players and GMs: What Tips You Would Give to a New Player?

In general:

Embrace the cheese. Roll around in it. There will come a time when you find your characters doing something totally unrealistic and ridiculous. Something you would never do in a non-dungeon fantasy game. When this comes, revel in it and remember that it's why you're here.

More specific:
Speech is a free action. In DF, it's usually more than free. A good over-the-top personality can turn a boring one-dimensional murder machine into a really fun two-dimensional murder machine.

Mechanically:
If your HT rolls to survive are at least 12, and the party has a healer, you're probably going to make it. Get to 12 somehow. Fit, Hard to Kill, somehow.

As a GM, don't push monster active defenses above 10 on a regular basis. Overcoming HP and DR is fun. Missing a lot is frustrating.

Remember that while D&D balanced various combat options so that two-handed fighters and two-weapon fighters did about as well as sword-and-board fighters, GURPS didn't do that. Sword-and-board is usually superior.

Take niche protection seriously. It's no fun when everybody is sneaky.
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Old 03-22-2017, 02:01 PM   #9
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy Players and GMs: What Tips You Would Give to a New Player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
Advice to players:

1. What is the single most important piece of advice you would give to a new Dungeon Fantasy player?
Have Fun! This genre can tell Parody as well as epic level story telling. You'll find the sweet spot between.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
2. What are 3-5 tips you would give to a player who is familiar with fantasy* role play but inexperienced with the town-and-down dungeon crawl style of play?
Drop Dice. Kill ogre. Nosh Pretzle. Tell a fun story, move the plot forward and keep enough money for a Raise dead close to hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
3. For players who will assume a front-line warrior character template (e.g., Knight), what tips you would give to help them play efficiently and effectively?
Deceptive Attack, Deceptive Attack, Deceptive Attack.

Also, in spite of the listed 'in play' works above, ask your GM if the Mystic Knight template is right for you. (Hint: It is).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe View Post

Advice to game masters:

1. What is the single most important piece of advice you would give to an experienced GURPS GM switching from running fantasy* games focused mainly on role playing to running Dungeon Fantasy hack-and-slash games?
YOu can tell epic level stories with the genre and you should try to do just that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
3. What are some other important pieces of advice you would give an experienced GURPS GM about running DF games?
DF is fairly combat-centric, as these things go, and GURPS combat is a great game entire unto itself, with each template in DF having the capacity to contribute in their own way.

That said, not every room has a monster in it, some have feindish traps, perplexing riddles and other skullduggery. Devise your own traps. Write your own riddles. Create your own Puzzles. You've spent your entire GMing life comming up with interesting stuff, and lets be honest, some of its been out of place in your other games for not being 'realistic' or 'plausible' but those rules in the DF space are relaxed if not outright discarded. GO FREAKING NUTS.

If Captain America's shield can defy the laws of Physics in a comic book, then you can have a deisel belching, clockwork dragon or a 2 foot tall Minotaur that shattters adventuring Shins as a matter of course. You can have a room where lighting a candle causes gravity to reverse itself (inside the room).

Use this DF time in this DF space to stretch your imagination as far as it will go. I think you'll find it a refreshing change of pace from reality :)

ALSO! Dont hesitate to shift the penalties for low HP to lower parts of the spectrum, even in the negative, because cowardly Pcs simply will not do in a DF game. Giving them a slightly bigger envelope to work in for HP helped my players be bold...which is what we all enjoyed anyway.

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Old 03-22-2017, 02:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy Players and GMs: What Tips You Would Give to a New Player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nymdok View Post
Also, in spite of the listed 'in play' works above, ask your GM if the Mystic Knight template is right for you. (Hint: It is).
My experience, from both ends, is that this is annoying. If the GM says that something isn't available you probably should just respect that.
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