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Old 03-08-2017, 08:36 PM   #1
onetrikpony
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Default Help with an illusion power please.

I need a power for a monster that uses illusion and invisibility.

This would be an activateable (cost's fatigue)

When active;
an illusory simulacrum of the monster appears within 2 hex and the monster itself disappears.

The actual position of the monster is extremely hard, but not impossible, to detect.

The illusion is active, mirroring the natural actions of the monster, and is extremely convincing to all senses except possibly radar.

The range limit of the illusion is 2 hex or 2 yards.

(if you happen to wonder; yes this is the Mirage from Cthulhutech)
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Old 03-08-2017, 08:58 PM   #2
Refplace
 
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Default Re: Help with an illusion power please.

Illusion with Independance and maybe tactile.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: Help with an illusion power please.

Ok, so what you've got here is Illusion and Invisibility. You want them both to go off at once, so you'll need Link. Sounds like you can't choose to start them separately, so the +10% version of Link is fine.

For the Invisibility, it sounds pretty straightforward. We'll put the FP cost on this, because it's the most expensive advantage, and thus saves more points. We'll need Affects Machines on it, since it definitely sounds like it hits more than just human vision. You describe it as "very hard to detect", so I'm going to assume it covers more than just light, and give it Extended (All), so it covers pretty much anything that could be described as "vision" - normal sight, infra-and ultra-vision, sonar, esoteric senses, and so forth. I also assume it can carry stuff while doing this, so we'll give it Can Carry Objects, Extra-Heavy Encumbrance.

The Illusion is slightly more tricky, but still doable. The Illusion advantage from Powers is the thing here. I assume that the illusion can only be of the creature more or less as it currently is, it can't create any other sort of illusion? If that's the case, that sounds like an Accessibility, and I'm going to call it -80%. As Refplace says, having it operate without the monster concentrating on it is Independence. For covering more than just visual senses, I'm going to eyeball a new enhancement, Extended Senses: All, at +100%. It's similar to the same enhancement for Invisibility. Also, extending Illusion to cover touch, hearing, and taste/smell would normally be +60%, giving us +40% more to cover a bunch of other sense advantages. We'll tack on -5% to represent the vulnerability to radar.

So, putting that all together, you've got:

Illusion (Accessibility, only to create illusion of creature as it exists, moving with creature, -80%; Accessibility: Not against radar, -5%; Extended, all senses, +100%; Independence, -40%; Link, to Invisibility, powers must be used together, +10%) [42] + Invisibility (Affects Machines, +50%; Can Carry Objects, extra-heavy encumbrance, +150%; Costs 1 FP, -5%; Extended, all senses, +100%; Link, to Illusion, powers must be used together, +10%) [162].
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:22 AM   #4
onetrikpony
 
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Default Re: Help with an illusion power please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
So, putting that all together, you've got:

Illusion (Accessibility, only to create illusion of creature as it exists, moving with creature, -80%; Accessibility: Not against radar, -5%; Extended, all senses, +100%; Independence, -40%; Link, to Invisibility, powers must be used together, +10%) [42] + Invisibility (Affects Machines, +50%; Can Carry Objects, extra-heavy encumbrance, +150%; Costs 1 FP, -5%; Extended, all senses, +100%; Link, to Illusion, powers must be used together, +10%) [162].
WOW! That's perfect. I'm going to use that exaclty as it is. Thank you very much.
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Old 03-09-2017, 01:22 PM   #5
corwyn
 
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Default Re: Help with an illusion power please.

Isn't he just paying a pile of points (over 40 pts) to make his invisibility weaker? The Illusion doesn't really help him that much and reveals the presence of an enemy that, with only the invisibility, would never be discovered in the first place.

Yes, it makes them initially attack the wrong target until they figure what's up, but the alternative is that they won't know he's there at all. I'd probably call it Invisibility plus switchable and a limitation that he has a mirror image follow him around showing exactly what he is doing.
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Old 03-09-2017, 01:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: Help with an illusion power please.

Yeah the mirror image seems more like nuisance effect on Invisibility than anything else; since effectively it is going to negate any benefit to Stealth.
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: Help with an illusion power please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
Isn't he just paying a pile of points (over 40 pts) to make his invisibility weaker?
Actually, thinking about it more, you're right. I was getting too complicated. The Illusion build just isn't necessary. I'd still make it cost FP rather than have Switchable - Switchable's only for Invisibility when you don't have some other resource to spend, and onetrikpony did say they want this to cost fatigue, so that's appropriate. For the limitation on "your image follows you around", I'd use the Fringe limitation from Powers as a guideline - that has a similar "your Invisibility is imperfect" effect. If the image can be anywhere within 2 yards of the creature, I'd use the same -10% as Fringe - it seems about equal to me for "hard Vision roll to spot you when you move" as "your duplicate can be easily seen, but it's trickier to tell where you are". If the double is more restricted (say, it has to be 2 yards from the creature, but it can be anywhere on that circle), I'd go for -20%, while if the double's position is very set with regards to the creature (say, "always exactly 2 yards ahead of where it's facing"), I'd give this -40%.
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Old 03-11-2017, 03:13 AM   #8
onetrikpony
 
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Default Re: Help with an illusion power please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
Yes, it makes them initially attack the wrong target until they figure what's up, but the alternative is that they won't know he's there at all. I'd probably call it Invisibility plus switchable and a limitation that he has a mirror image follow him around showing exactly what he is doing.
The intent here is to confuse an opponent that has already detected the monster. When the power is on it can't be targeted effectively with anything other than area effecting powers. You can be looking right at it and not actually know where it's at AND you don't know that you don't know where it's at.

I don't think Kelly's original design was too bad. The way I price invisibility with all the bells and whistles + a level 9 Obscure (hearing) it would cost 154CP.
That build makes the illusory double independent (which is the intent of the original I'm stealing here) so it can be an exact mirror or it can seem to perform different actions as long as it stays within 2 hexes.
I'm still looking at ways to limit the Duplicate power to be what I want and stay within the letter of the RAW but I'm probably going to go with what Kelly gave me.

Thanks everyone :)
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Old 03-11-2017, 03:24 AM   #9
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Default Re: Help with an illusion power please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onetrikpony View Post
The intent here is to confuse an opponent that has already detected the monster. When the power is on it can't be targeted effectively with anything other than area effecting powers. You can be looking right at it and not actually know where it's at AND you don't know that you don't know where it's at.

I don't think Kelly's original design was too bad. The way I price invisibility with all the bells and whistles + a level 9 Obscure (hearing) it would cost 154CP.
That build makes the illusory double independent (which is the intent of the original I'm stealing here) so it can be an exact mirror or it can seem to perform different actions as long as it stays within 2 hexes.
I'm still looking at ways to limit the Duplicate power to be what I want and stay within the letter of the RAW but I'm probably going to go with what Kelly gave me.

Thanks everyone :)
Well it's your game, and an NPC (I assume) to boot, but even with the illusion fully independent, the combination is explicitly weaker than just invisibility so it should cost less. The extra confusion in combat doesn't come close to compensating for the fact that he can't move around completely unnoticed.
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