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Old 03-04-2017, 11:14 AM   #11
evileeyore
 
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Default Re: Limited use and takes recharge

Quote:
Originally Posted by weby View Post
And in any case even with that 150 point advantage the 10 minute use 5 minutes off compared to 1 minute use/day is still pretty strange pricing.
Agreed. Some of the Enhancements and Limitations seem more to fit genre constraints (specifically comic book constraints) rather than play constraints.



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At best with breath control you can use only 16 minutes to recover the FP needed for 1 minute use, the others are much slower.
Recover Energy 20 is equal to Breath Control and requires no roll (but it's more expensive to get, and can be reduced or taken away in Low/No Mana areas).

If you have both Breath Control and Fit, you can get 1 FP/minute. But some GMs won't allow this, and even if allowed only applies to FP lost to exertion, stress, heat exhaustion, etc, not supernatural power costs.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:28 AM   #12
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Limited use and takes recharge

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Originally Posted by lord buss View Post
The modifiers are very strange: limited use - 1/day is -40%, when both limited use - 2/day and takes recharge - 1 hour, is -60%. it is cheaper, and you can use this more times. WTF?
They're intended for different sorts of traits. Mostly priced by their effect on stuff used in combat time. The takes recharge condition was built and scaled for combat traits you'd otherwise want to hit targets with repeatedly if you could, but it can't because it has a limitation - that's why there's that big jump from 15 seconds to 1 hour - more than 15 seconds is basically "forever" in terms of how long fights last. Limited use is scaled for stuff you use in strategic time rather than melee, where it doesn't particularly matter if it takes one minute or 10 until I can use it again, I wasn't going to do anything with it for an hour anyway - that's why it levels out at 10 or more per day is -0%, that was more often than anybody was likely to ever want it anyway. They were never *intended* to be limitations on the same sort of traits. A lot of "general" modifiers are actually like that, intended for one or the other of those cases, and will give you results that seem unfairly generous or restrictive for their value if you apply them to the other.
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Old 03-04-2017, 12:24 PM   #13
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Limited use and takes recharge

Limited Use and Takes Recharge seem appropriate to combine to me. Mechanically, it's "You can use this only a few times per day, and must wait at least n seconds/minutes/hours between uses." In terms of fluff, it could be, say, a magic spell that's so powerful it destabilizes your own connection to the aether/mana/Other Side/whatever - you can't use it more than twice a day, and you have to wait at least an hour after using it before your connection has stabilized enough to be able to use it again. Limited Use (Reload) is even easier to justify - it's an energy weapon that both consumes ammo and has to cool down between shots.

Now, Takes Recharge isn't as much of a Limitation on something that has Limited Use, so it might be appropriate to reduce the cost of Takes Recharge in that case. Of course, this is something that would need to scale - the more shots you get per day, the more of a Limitation Takes Recharge becomes. Takes Recharge is thus more limiting on something with Limited Use (Reload) than on something with just Limited Use (because you can get more uses per day out of the former), but it's less of a Limitation the closer the Takes Recharge time and the Reload time are to each other, or if they're too far apart Limited Use (Reload) is worth less... but the more shots you get between reloads, the more of a Limitation it is. It's a big complicated mess.

For an example of what I meant on that last, consider something with Limited Use (Slow Reload - 10 seconds). With Limited Use 1, Takes Recharge (5 seconds) isn't even a Limitation - you need at least 10 seconds between shots just for reloading! Takes Recharge (15 seconds) is arguably only worth as much as Takes Recharge (5 seconds), as there's only, at most, 5 seconds between "can't use again" and "can use again," and that's only if you start reloading as soon as you've fired. Takes Recharge (1 hour) means Limited Use 1 (Slow Reload - 10 seconds) is a minor nuisance, as it means you have to carry ammunition and find 10 seconds during that entire hour to reload. With Limited Use 2 (Slow Reload - 5 seconds each), Takes Recharge (5 seconds) is only a Limitation between shot 1 and 2, shot 3 and 4, shot 5 and 6, and so forth, while Takes Recharge (15 seconds) is a full-strength Limitation between shots 1 and 2, 3 and 4, 5 and 6, and so forth, but only worth at best as much as Takes Recharge (5 seconds) between shots 2 and 3, 4 and 5, and so forth. Limited Use (Slow Reload) is even less of a nuisance combined with Takes Recharge (1 hour), because now you only need to find 5 seconds, and if for some reason you can't, you still have another shot, after which point you can recover one with 5 seconds, or both with 10 seconds. And so forth.

Last edited by Varyon; 03-04-2017 at 12:28 PM.
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