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Old 08-24-2017, 09:46 AM   #1
Jeminai
 
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Default Bows: Striking ST vs. Lifting ST

I have a player that wants to use Lifting ST instead of Striking ST to raise damage with his bows.

Is this allowed?
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:49 AM   #2
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Default Re: Bows: Striking ST vs. Lifting ST

Yes in TDS, no in normal rules.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:00 AM   #3
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Default Re: Bows: Striking ST vs. Lifting ST

For clarity: TDS is "The Deadly Spring", a Pyramid article by Douglas Cole (who is on this forum quite actively).
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:10 AM   #4
Jeminai
 
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Default Re: Bows: Striking ST vs. Lifting ST

Thanks so much for the clarification.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: Bows: Striking ST vs. Lifting ST

I would never allow that.

The entire reason lifting strength is cheap and striking strength is expensive is because lifting strength can't be used to attack. If they want to strike harder either buy full strength or striking strength.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: Bows: Striking ST vs. Lifting ST

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Originally Posted by mehrkat View Post
I would never allow that.

The entire reason lifting strength is cheap and striking strength is expensive is because lifting strength can't be used to attack. If they want to strike harder either buy full strength or striking strength.
In regular rather than cinematic games, Lifting Strength really only comes into play for extra damage every second or third turn because of the long reload times for bows. It's also definitely not a striking-speed biomechanics, so Lifting ST fit as a description better.

Still, of course: your game, your rules.

But given bows are based on thrust rather than swing, it's 6 points per +1 to damage, and that +1 happens every second to sixth turn depending on how quickly you're shooting, compared to 5 points for +1 to swing damage anywhere from one to many times per turn . . . I'm not worried about balance!

In a cinematic game (like DF) where you can quick-ready, quick-draw, Heroic Archer, and basically fire arrows like an elvish ferret on drugs, I'm in complete agreement. DF and the DFRPG take pains to make the scout as nasty on a turn-by-turn basis as many melee fighters, so putting them all on the same ST basis is probably the right call.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:23 PM   #7
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Default Re: Bows: Striking ST vs. Lifting ST

Part of the issue here is just what lifting ST is supposed to represent. Assuming it does apply to the arms, most likely it means your ST is slow -- the amount of force muscle can apply normally drops as your contraction rate increases, and lifting ST probably drops off faster, while striking ST drops off slower.

For bows, a simple implementation of this is to add an extra turn of readying to a bow with a ST that is above your striking ST but below your lifting ST.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:34 PM   #8
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Default Re: Bows: Striking ST vs. Lifting ST

That would mean that lifting things above your head, which for large weights requires rather quick explosions of force, involves striking strength.

It's Basic, so I don't think it needs or makes sense with such over-analyzing.
You lift with Lifting, and strike with Striking.
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bows: Striking ST vs. Lifting ST

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
That would mean that lifting things above your head, which for large weights requires rather quick explosions of force, involves striking strength.

It's Basic, so I don't think it needs or makes sense with such over-analyzing.
You lift with Lifting, and strike with Striking.
That's where I'd go with this as well.
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: Bows: Striking ST vs. Lifting ST

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
That would mean that lifting things above your head, which for large weights requires rather quick explosions of force, involves striking strength.
Lifting things rapidly would involve striking ST. Your other option is of course to declare that lifting ST does not represent anything physically describable, but that seems undesirable.
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