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Old 02-25-2017, 10:37 AM   #1
solidsingularity
 
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Default [Powers] Side Effect + Multiplicative Modifiers

Is is to cheep?
I have having the problem that a 4 to 6 point increase is giving more power than a 15 point affliction.
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Old 02-25-2017, 10:45 AM   #2
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Default Re: [Powers] Side Effect + Multiplicative Modifiers

It might be helpful if you explained what you're talking about here. Are you talking about replacing Affliction with No Wounding Innate Attacks? Adding Side Effect to an existing attack instead of buying Affliction? Something else?
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Old 02-25-2017, 10:54 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Powers] Side Effect + Multiplicative Modifiers

Side Effect is an enhancement. Multiplicative Modifiers changes the way you apply limitations. So I also do not understand exactly what you're asking.
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:26 AM   #4
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Default Re: [Powers] Side Effect + Multiplicative Modifiers

I'm having the problem where I have two players, one with an affliction that gives some stat penalties that costs around 15 points for one level, then I have a player who has an innate attack with nearly identical aoe and delivery methods that also has side-effect different stat penalties but they come out to the same % modifier (one penalizes IQ, one Dex). This second attack is significantly cheaper and as far as I can tell superior in every way. I'm just curious if this is the balance intent or if there are other ways I can ensure that people who have powers that utilize side-effect rather than affliction aren't just getting more power for their points.
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Old 02-26-2017, 11:08 AM   #5
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Default Re: [Powers] Side Effect + Multiplicative Modifiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by solidsingularity View Post
I'm having the problem where I have two players, one with an affliction that gives some stat penalties that costs around 15 points for one level, then I have a player who has an innate attack with nearly identical aoe and delivery methods that also has side-effect different stat penalties but they come out to the same % modifier (one penalizes IQ, one Dex). This second attack is significantly cheaper and as far as I can tell superior in every way. I'm just curious if this is the balance intent or if there are other ways I can ensure that people who have powers that utilize side-effect rather than affliction aren't just getting more power for their points.
So, roughly speaking, we're looking at something like Affliction 1 (-5 DX +50%) [15] vs Innate Attack 1d (Crushing; Side Effect: -5 DX +100%) [10]. Against an unarmored target within 10 yards, Affliction calls for a straight HT roll to resist, while IA with Side Effect calls for a straight HT roll 1/6th of the time, HT-1 1/3rd of the time, HT-2 1/3rd of the time, and HT-3 1/6th of the time, for an average of HT-1.5, and also causes injury and knockback. At targets beyond 10 yards but within 100 yards (beyond this, no effect), Affliction calls for HT+3, while IA+SE doesn't work 1/6th of the time (rolled a 1 for damage, which rounds down to 0), calls for straight HT 1/3 of the time, and calls for HT-1 1/2 of the time, roughly for an average of a roll against HT, in addition to causing half nominal injury. So, obviously, the second build is better. However, against armor, Affliction calls for an HT+DR roll (HT+DR+3 beyond 10 yards), while IA+SE gets outright negated DR/6th of the time, and otherwise gets shifted to the left - against DR 3 within 1/2D range, Affliction calls for an HT+3 roll, while IA+SE doesn't work 1/2 of the time, calls for straight HT 1/6th of the time, and calls for HT-1 1/3rd of the time.

Now, perhaps you feel the surcharge for the anti-armor performance of Affliction is too much (and I'd be inclined to agree with you). In that case, I'd suggest allowing the character with Affliction to replace it with a Crushing Innate Attack with No Wounding, No Knockback, and No Blunt Trauma, along with Side Effect. If not using Multiplicative Modifiers, the above build would be Innate Attack 1d (Crushing; No Damage* -80%, Side Effect: -5 DX +100%) [6]. If using Multiplicative Modifiers, the cost is instead only [2].

*For simplicity, this simply combines No Wounding, No Knockback, and No Blunt Trauma.
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Old 02-26-2017, 01:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: [Powers] Side Effect + Multiplicative Modifiers

I guess my really question is why is side effect so much cheaper?
I feel that side effect should be the same or more extensive as affliction fallow up.
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Old 02-26-2017, 04:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: [Powers] Side Effect + Multiplicative Modifiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by solidsingularity View Post
I guess my really question is why is side effect so much cheaper?
I feel that side effect should be the same or more extensive as affliction fallow up.
The only logical answer I can think of is that Innate Attacks tend to have lower base prices, so Enhancements tend to not cost as much. On higher leveled Innate Attacks, you'll find that the price starts shooting up, since that increases the base price of the Advantage, and with it how much you pay for the Enhancement. Using the example that Varyon gave, you would be paying as much as the Affliction at an Innate Attack level 3, and beyond that it would get more expensive (though since it works better the more damage you do, it would still be more potent.)
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Old 02-26-2017, 05:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: [Powers] Side Effect + Multiplicative Modifiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by solidsingularity View Post
I guess my really question is why is side effect so much cheaper?
I feel that side effect should be the same or more extensive as affliction fallow up.
Honestly, Affliction isn't, in my opinion, a well-priced trait, so I personally favor putting Side Effect on a No Damage Crushing Innate Attack*. With that said, however, do keep in mind that Side Effect is actually +50% + whatever the effect would be worth as an Affliction - as noted in my example, DX -5 is +50% on Affliction, but +100% on Innate Attack. It's just that Innate Attack tends to have low enough of a base cost, and Side Effect is so darn useful, that it tends to beat out Affliction pretty handily.

*If you want to maintain the way Affliction works against DR, that would be an additional modifier. I'd eyeball it as roughly around +50%, comparable to a level of Armor Divisor. I'd have it be HT for 0 damage, HT-1 for -1 or -2 damage, HT-2 for -3 or -4 damage, and so forth. I could be persuaded to go up to +100%, comparable to the "Cheating" level of Cosmic.
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