[Supers/Ultra-Tech] Making Advanced Tech Opponents Not-Unstoppable Badasses?

[Phantasm]

So, one of the issues I'm having with my Marvel Reboot project is the gear for the AIM Soldiers, particularly their armor. (Substitute your favorite universe's subversive organizations: Hydra for the MCU, Intergang for the DCU/DCAUs, VIPER for the Champions universe, etc.)

For reference, the AIM Soldier is a skilled mercenary with access to TL9 and TL10 armor, weapons, and other gear. I want them to be a genuine threat in small numbers without being impossible to take down by TL8 characters who themselves lack access to the ultra-tech gear. They are generally outfitted with TL10 Pulse/Beam Laser Rifles, able to switch between armor-piercing (2) tight-beam burning damage and crushing explosive damage with the flick of a switch, and wear armor to protect them from the police- and SWAT-issue weapons they indent to operate against. Their helmets, in addition to protecting their heads, have a HUD for augmented reality and targeting uses.

For starters, I thought about the Reflex and Nanoweave tactical vests. However, visually these don't stand out as being "advanced technology" in a visual medium, usually being not any different to the untrained eye (and especially when shown in an animated or live-action medium) from modern-day SWAT vests.

One other option is the Reflex Tacsuit. I always pictured this as being similar to what the bounty hunter Jubal Early wore in his episode of Firefly.

I would love to give them something similar to the Clamshells, for the visual to set them apart as being "advanced armor", but even the TL9 Light Clamshell can be considered "too much DR" in-play.

So, thoughts to help?

[Anthony]

Change the stats of the gear. It's pretty much flavor text in actual comic books.

[weby]

TL 9 light clamshell is not too much armor at DR 30 for military purpose, it is too little.

Current best TL 8 military issue armor is actually about DR 48, so more than the heavy clamshell. So in effect if you give them DR 30 breast plates they are less armored than current western troops deployed to say Afghanistan.

That being said, yes civilian/SWAT type weapons cannot normally penetrate DR 30 as AP ammo is rare in such use, instead they tend to use expanding ammo. But many of the the weapons themselves are able to defeat DR 30 easily if they get AP ammo, and things like SWAT teams tend to have such available even if not normally actually deployed since events like the North Hollywood shootout.

Even a long barrel AR15/m16 will penetrate the DR 30 with AP ammo and a 7.62N with AP will have a blow trough against someone wearing such flimsy armor.

So if you want them to be hard to stop then you need to make the armor heavier and even then just a vest is fairly easy to bypass for people like SWAT snipers.

[Gadget]

dont give them helmets

[Dalillama]

Well, the point of AIM troopers in universe is so that supers aren't totally unstoppable badasses. They're meant to take on people TL8 forces can't stop. So it makes sense that non-supers with TL8 gear are ludicrously outclassed. Otherwise, why bother with the expensive high tech gear?

[Culture20]

AIM scientist beehive suits are probably very low DR versus crushing but excel versus energy, especially radiation. Until recently in the comics, AIM didn't have anyone exclusively devoted to combat except for MODOK. They did have "troopers" and "guards", but they were the scientists who drew the short straw for the week or were assigned by the Scientist Supreme du jour. Now their *weapons* were always excellent (enough that Cable bought their second hand gear). The AIM scientists were often depicted as having poor aim or the Reluctant Killer disad.
If your new universe AIM is more combat oriented, then they might even deploy portable force screens for battlefield control. They will be forces to reckon with; the only reason they wouldn't steamroller over a major country would be numbers or aspiration. If they use the soldiers mostly for defense then it might take high-power supers to defeat them. The point of an adventure for low level supers might be to gather intel, then get out and summon the big guns. Maybe bring Banner along for the first and second parts of the mission...

[Varyon]

I'd imagine elite troops wearing something like the following:

Full body suit of flexible armor, 1/10th to 1/4th inch thick (any thicker than the latter and it no longer counts as GURPS Flexible).

Full helmet with advanced electronics (HUD with Augmented Reality if available, high-quality radio, etc). This either has a full-face translucent visor (likely of the type that completely conceals the wearer's face behind a mirrored finish or similar), or has eye slits with that same translucent material. I'm assuming the latter.

Clamshell armor over the Chest. Roughly 0.2 inches thick on the front, 0.1 inches thick on the back, but only granting 4/6 coverage (sizable gaps near the armpits, both to avoid impeding maneuverability and to make it easier to adjust for the specific wearer).

Comparable armor to the Back Chest on the arms, for 3/6 protection. 3/6 to the hands as well, in the form of armor plates on the back of the hand and tops of the fingers.

Front only armor to the upper legs, leaving the inner and back thighs exposed (to maximize maneuverability). Full protection to the knees, shins, and feet, possibly with doubled armor on the toes and soles of the feet.

We'll finish up with a scale-construction fauld on the Abdomen. That's front only, 4/6 protection (sides exposed). This results in an overall -1 to DX from layered armor (the above all avoid this by being at 3/6, and because I personally don't feel armor below the knee should count for layering penalties - if you feel it should, either have the bodysuit not cover those parts, or make the rigid armor front only). As a result, it usually isn't worn unless serious trouble is anticipated.

Optionally, the arm armor actually gives 4/6 protection, but uses the above 3/6 for weight and cost. Essentially, you're getting better protection for the weight by leaving rarely-exposed bits unarmored (most hits to the arms will be to their outer surface, not inner).

Let's see what our armor looks like at TL 9 and 10, using Cutting Edge Armor Design (Pyramid #3/85) and Ultra-Tech Armor Design (Pyramid #3/96).

At TL 9, the bodysuit is probably Magnetic Liquid Armor, and of Optimized Fabric construction. It's DR 12/6* (12 vs Cutting and Piercing, 6 vs everything else), weighs 6.5 lb, and costs $2600 at TL 9. Note being of Optimized Fabric means Armor Chinks apply, although Armor Gaps probably shouldn't.

The rigid armor is likely made of Polymer Nanocomposite. On the Head, Front Chest and toes and soles of the Feet, this is DR 30. Elsewhere, it's DR 15. This weighs 25 lb, and costs $50,000. The lenses in the eyes are Laminated Polycarbonate, for DR 5, 0.1 lb, and $3 The removable fauld is DR 15, weighs 9.5 lb, and costs $3,000.

Likely additions to the bodysuit are making it Sealed ($100) and adding biomedical sensors (0.2 lb, $200). The Cutting Edge rules imply IR shielding might be a good option, at only +$450, but the Ultra Tech ones change this to +45 lb and +$1125, making that much less likely. The helmet probably goes for broke, with a tiny radio (0.05 lb, $50) with GPS (included) and IFF comm (+$500), hearing protection ($50), a tiny computer (0.1 lb, $150), a HUD with IR ($500, 0.6 lb), a Near-Miss Indicator ($1000), and a Personal Ladar/Radar Detector ($50, 0.5 lb). This being a setting with supers, psionic mind-shield circuitry ($1000, 0.5 lb) is also a possibility.


At TL 10, the bodysuit is instead made of Advanced Nanoweave, for DR 18/6* (18 vs cut/pi, 6 vs everything else), 6.5 lb, and $2,000.

The rigid armor is instead Advanced Nanolaminate, for DR 60 on the Head, Front Chest, and toes and soles of the Feet, DR 30 elsewhere. Weight is 20 lb, cost is $20,000. The lenses in the eyes are Advanced Polymer Nanocomposite, for DR 20, 0.1 lb, and $5. The fauld is 7.5 lb, $1200. Yes, this technically means the TL 10 rigid armor is cheaper than the TL 9 rigid armor at TL 8 - if you'd like, reprice the TL 9 rigid armor as though it were made at TL 10, when Polymer Nanocomposite is 1/4th the cost (meaning the TL 9 armor costs $12,500 for the plates and $750 for the fauld at TL 10).

The TL 10 armor is going to have the same additions as the TL 9, with the same prices, but most of them are simply going to perform better than their TL 9 counterparts.



Now, the above probably looks like it produces some unstoppable soldiers when you are limited to TL 8 gear, but that's not really the case. Even if the target is wearing the fauld (and suffering the -1 DX this causes), roughly a third of your attacks (2/6 when aiming at Torso, Arms, or Upper Legs, 0/6 against lower legs or feet, 1/6 for the Eyes - although this is more of a boon against TL 9 than TL 10 armor - when aiming at the Head, and 6/6 if aiming at the unprotected neck) avoid the serious DR, typically just needing to deal with the flexible layer. You can improve this by taking appropriate attack penalties. Now, that flexible layer is nothing to sneeze at, but it's hardly impenetrable. TL 9 has sufficient DR to negate 3d+2, which will stop the vast majority of pistols, revolvers, and SMG's, but will only serve to slow down shotgun slugs and rifle bullets. TL 10 will negate 5d, so you'll want a higher powered rifle than usual, or just some APHC or +P rounds (most TL 8 rifles hover around 5d, so +P ammo will get around 2 damage through on an average roll, while APHC will punch through the armor quite readily). Humorously, with the way ST-based damage works and the flexible layer's poor defense against impaling (DR 6 at both TL 9 and 10), you may be better able to punch through with a spear, arrow, or pick (with ST 11-12, an average-quality - meaning Fine at TL 8 - spear does 2d-1 in two hands, meaning higher ST will penetrate armor more often than not).

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by weby

TL 9 light clamshell is not too much armor at DR 30 for military purpose, it is too little.

Current best TL 8 military issue armor is actually about DR 48

Hi Tech sez 35. 28 against energy attacks. Light Clamshell is in the same ballpark but five pounds lighter and more durable. Of course if the police are using their real world weapons then they do about 17 points of damage with a carbine meaning that they'd be looking at a North Hollywood shootout, worse, every time they ran into AIM. Reflex vests wouldn't be any better. In order to have a hope of whittling them down they'd have to aim at the parts protected by flexible armour.

[Tyneras]

Isn't that fairly standard for superhero worlds? Normal authorities are useless when Superhuman Events happen?

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Hi Tech sez 35. 28 against energy attacks. Light Clamshell is in the same ballpark but five pounds lighter and more durable. Of course if the police are using their real world weapons then they do about 17 points of damage with a carbine meaning that they'd be looking at a North Hollywood shootout, worse, every time they ran into AIM. Reflex vests wouldn't be any better. In order to have a hope of whittling them down they'd have to aim at the parts protected by flexible armour.

And then they load up with AP rounds and do about 17(2). That penetrates the effective DR 15 rather reliably.