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Old 02-12-2017, 10:57 PM   #41
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Firearms training and familiarities for US Army mental health specialist

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
I doubt that any 19th century person used to officer's swords would consider sidearms as status signifiers weird.
Didn't he hate those too?
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From what I can tell, special operators have a similar kind of deal.
I think the focus of Army SF is on weapons relevant to cadre training of allied irregulars. Marine Gunners are subject matter experts for all the weapons in the battalion. So it is a pretty different job.
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Everyone? Do all MPs get pistols or are the uniformed soldiers who act as base security expected to just carry a rifle, with pistols confined to those who are acting as detectives.
MPs on firmbases in the US look more-or-less like civilian police, except in military uniforms, they wear pistols and tasers, drive interceptors and so on.
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Old 02-12-2017, 11:26 PM   #42
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Default Re: Covert carbines in .300

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
I agree that it would be a good weapon for covert operations. Is there any particular model or manufacturer that would be more likely to be procured for a composite black ops team composed of BORTAC, HSI/ICE SRT and other DHS agents and/or for a DEVGRU Black Squadron squad* or the Activity/'Army of Northern Virginia'?**

*An eight man SEAL squad plus four female HUMINT specialists is attached to Onyx Rain.
**There are some specialists we presume are from them attached to Onyx Rain and we expect that whatever faction within the Army/DoD wants to circumvent the DHS and keep things internal has got a team in Mexico already.
Honestly, once you get out of regular Army/Navy/Air Force forces, more or less any weapon system is fair game. Special Forces are just that--special--"standard issue" has far less meaning to them.

I would pick whatever works the best--probably some kind of AR-15 pattern rifle chambered for .300 BLK. Alternately, you can go with "these don't exist quite yet but they look really damn cool" weapons: http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2015/...-2016-release/
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Old 02-13-2017, 02:06 AM   #43
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Default Re: Covert carbines in .300

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Originally Posted by apoc527 View Post
Honestly, once you get out of regular Army/Navy/Air Force forces, more or less any weapon system is fair game. Special Forces are just that--special--"standard issue" has far less meaning to them.

I would pick whatever works the best--probably some kind of AR-15 pattern rifle chambered for .300 BLK. Alternately, you can go with "these don't exist quite yet but they look really damn cool" weapons: http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2015/...-2016-release/
It's probably easier to avoid unwanted attention, both inside and outside the US government, when borrowing equipment already in stores and/or adding to procurement orders already in place than make a special purchase of a weapon system no one uses.

To some extent, having individual black ops operators buy the weapons on the commercial market using phony IDs might bypass this, but in that case, nothing that couldn't be bought at a gunshow would be available. Nothing that requires Class III status, NFA tax, etc. Semi-automatic only, no suppressors and probably not barrels threaded for them (even if technically legal, it brings undesirable attention). If they can get the surpressors through an alternate source (any .30 caliber suppressor would do, right?), it might not matter that the weapons are not selective fire, as highly skilled operators will rarely have occasion to use that feature anyway.
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Old 02-13-2017, 02:38 AM   #44
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Default Re: Firearms training and familiarities for US Army mental health specialist

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Didn't he hate those too?
I wasn't aware, which is a weird oversight for me, considering I read his autobiography not that long a go.

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I think the focus of Army SF is on weapons relevant to cadre training of allied irregulars. Marine Gunners are subject matter experts for all the weapons in the battalion. So it is a pretty different job.
No doubt very different, but both are trained to use siderarms. Army SF have been training Afghan police, for example, and that includes teaching them to use pistols.

Incindentally, which pistol would be likeliest to feel comfortable to use for a 5'6" woman weighing less than 110 lbs. (hand size normal for her height and weight); a standard M9, a Glock 17 available to the teams guys or an M11 borrowed from some of the plain-clothes personnel associated with the Project*?

I've fired a Glock and a SIG P229, but never a P228 or a Beretta. The Glock felt clumsy and bulky, whereas the SIG felt perfect in my hand. I don't know if the P228 grip feels as comfortable as the P229 and the Beretta looks huge, but I don't know how it feels to hold in comparison.

*Army Counterintelligence, DARPA, DIA, what have you.

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
MPs on firmbases in the US look more-or-less like civilian police, except in military uniforms, they wear pistols and tasers, drive interceptors and so on.
Fair enough.
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Old 02-13-2017, 04:22 AM   #45
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

A long time ago not long after the Vietnam war ended I read a article that as a test/showing off Green Berets would take a table that had dismantled weapons, M-16, AK-47, French rifle from the era they controlled the place, Japanese from Ww II and assemble them all blindfolded. Their job was to be able to train locals on all the stuff that might be available to insurgent groups they train.
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Old 02-13-2017, 04:55 AM   #46
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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A long time ago not long after the Vietnam war ended I read a article that as a test/showing off Green Berets would take a table that had dismantled weapons, M-16, AK-47, French rifle from the era they controlled the place, Japanese from Ww II and assemble them all blindfolded. Their job was to be able to train locals on all the stuff that might be available to insurgent groups they train.
Yup. Cross-Trained (Guns (Rifle)*) is realistic for US Army Special Forces.

I don't know if they train with a lot of types of other weapons, though. Probably several models of machine gun, rockets and mortars, but assuming that they spend a few points on each, normal rules for familiarities might suffice. In any case, my PC is made without Cross-Trained for any other specialities.

*Well, Guns (Longarm) in all campaigns we play, as we're using Hans' Alternate Guns Specialities from Pyramid.
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:52 AM   #47
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Default Re: Covert carbines in .300

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
It's probably easier to avoid unwanted attention, both inside and outside the US government, when borrowing equipment already in stores and/or adding to procurement orders already in place than make a special purchase of a weapon system no one uses.

To some extent, having individual black ops operators buy the weapons on the commercial market using phony IDs might bypass this, but in that case, nothing that couldn't be bought at a gunshow would be available. Nothing that requires Class III status, NFA tax, etc. Semi-automatic only, no suppressors and probably not barrels threaded for them (even if technically legal, it brings undesirable attention). If they can get the surpressors through an alternate source (any .30 caliber suppressor would do, right?), it might not matter that the weapons are not selective fire, as highly skilled operators will rarely have occasion to use that feature anyway.
Actually, suppressors are becoming easier and easier to get around the States. Not only do suppressors count as barrel length for SBR statutes, but there is even a federal Hearing Protection Act (I'm serious) being discussed that would make it even easier to get suppressors.

So, I imagine that in a few years, suppressors will be common as dirt. Even right now, you only need to pay a $200 tax. My dad bought one. I could go out and get one right now, no problem.
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Old 02-13-2017, 10:00 AM   #48
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Default Re: Covert carbines in .300

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Originally Posted by apoc527 View Post
Actually, suppressors are becoming easier and easier to get around the States. Not only do suppressors count as barrel length for SBR statutes, but there is even a federal Hearing Protection Act (I'm serious) being discussed that would make it even easier to get suppressors.

So, I imagine that in a few years, suppressors will be common as dirt. Even right now, you only need to pay a $200 tax. My dad bought one. I could go out and get one right now, no problem.
You do need to have a valid ID that stands up to scrutiny, right? I heard that it sometimes takes months for the paperwork to go through.

If there are any computerised checks involved, that's too much of a risk.
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Old 02-13-2017, 04:47 PM   #49
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Default Re: Covert carbines in .300

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
It's probably easier to avoid unwanted attention, both inside and outside the US government, when borrowing equipment already in stores and/or adding to procurement orders already in place than make a special purchase of a weapon system no one uses.

To some extent, having individual black ops operators buy the weapons on the commercial market using phony IDs might bypass this, but in that case, nothing that couldn't be bought at a gunshow would be available. Nothing that requires Class III status, NFA tax, etc. Semi-automatic only, no suppressors and probably not barrels threaded for them (even if technically legal, it brings undesirable attention). If they can get the surpressors through an alternate source (any .30 caliber suppressor would do, right?), it might not matter that the weapons are not selective fire, as highly skilled operators will rarely have occasion to use that feature anyway.
Depending on training, i.e. if they have Armory skill, they can make their own silencers. Then that solves the issue of buying. Its not unreasonable for a covert black ops team to have their own "gun nut" that mods and customizes weapons, even to the extent of making the parts himself.
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Old 02-13-2017, 06:42 PM   #50
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Default Re: Covert carbines in .300

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Depending on training, i.e. if they have Armory skill, they can make their own silencers. Then that solves the issue of buying. Its not unreasonable for a covert black ops team to have their own "gun nut" that mods and customizes weapons, even to the extent of making the parts himself.
The Navy SEAL team has members with Armoury 14-15. That's enough to make a decent suppressor (though realistically, you need Machinist skill as well for that, but several ratings on the team will have it anyway).

I've wondered if 'hand-making' (at our TL, more like machining or CNC-ing) a suppressor can ever yield a dB reduction that matches top commercial models. At the very least, the tools needed to turn out a -3 suppressor in 9x19mm or -4 suppressor in .45 ACP (the apparent real-world maximum at our tech level) should be bulky, pretty expensive and you might need to illegally copy a commercial model, for which you'd probably need pirated blueprints. More commonly, a 'home-machined' suppressor will most likely be only -2 or so.
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