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Old 10-26-2016, 10:33 AM   #11
evileeyore
 
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Default Re: Armored... Shoes?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Outdoor/soldier shoes are likely to be built to last or at least not to fail too suddenly, since unlike fighter jets they can't afford to have a huge 'logistic tail'.
AHAHAHAHAHA!

You've never dealt with the American Military Boot have you? I believe they have an operational life span of "less than one year".

Every one I've owned should have been replaced just after 6 months, but I could usually nurse them out to almost a year. But my feet are hard on shoes.
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Old 10-26-2016, 10:45 AM   #12
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Default Re: Armored... Shoes?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
What happens as you wear worn shoes is that you increase your risk of injury, not that the shoes are not wearable as shoes.
Which only gets worse if you have a defective gait for whatever reason - you get a wacky wear pattern that the manufacturer could never have anticipated, and it overall gets even worse.

Case in point, my feet have extraordinarily high arches (like, I have trouble tying up shoes unless I get mens double-wide). This makes my gait unstable and I tend to roll onto the sides of my feet. I wear that part more than it's designed to, which makes the bottom of my shoes rounder, which makes me roll side to side more, and then one day I'm minding my own damn business on flat concrete and massively sprain[1] my ankle as my foot rolls right over and my ankle folds up.

I'd worn those shoes down almost to the padding, which was a terrible idea. I got scolded in the ER. I replace them more often now.

Smart materials have potential, with adaptive support and the ability to indicate when they're dangerously worn, and to tell you that you should see someone about your funny feet. Bioplas shoes that self-heal would be pretty awesome.

[1] The kind of sprain where it would have been kinder to break my ankle.
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Old 10-26-2016, 12:28 PM   #13
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Default Re: Armored... Shoes?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Outdoor/soldier shoes are likely to be built to last or at least not to fail too suddenly, since unlike fighter jets they can't afford to have a huge 'logistic tail'.
One classic Chesty Puller bit was when he was in charge of marine training. Announced a 20? mile hike in full field gear for everyone and at the half way point they were met with trucks that had hot meals. After lunch they handed out tags and you were supposed to tag your boots, put them in the trucks and put on the spare pair from you pack that full field gear called for. All the troops had them since the drill sergeants had of course checked. Some of the NCOs and many of the higher officers didn't. You could ride back in the trucks that kept up with the marchers on the way back, as soon as the medics said that you were unable to march from foot damage.

So at least back then regs called for a spare pair as part of full kit.
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Old 10-26-2016, 02:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: Armored... Shoes?

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Originally Posted by dcarson View Post
One classic Chesty Puller bit was when he was in charge of marine training. Announced a 20? mile hike in full field gear for everyone and at the half way point they were met with trucks that had hot meals. After lunch they handed out tags and you were supposed to tag your boots, put them in the trucks and put on the spare pair from you pack that full field gear called for. All the troops had them since the drill sergeants had of course checked. Some of the NCOs and many of the higher officers didn't. You could ride back in the trucks that kept up with the marchers on the way back, as soon as the medics said that you were unable to march from foot damage.

So at least back then regs called for a spare pair as part of full kit.
Since old fashion leather combat boots needed to be broken before they became confortable (or at least the Belgian army ones did) , the reason for switching half-way may have been to ensure both set were worn ?
But once shaped to your feet ( or possibly once your feet shaped themselves to the boots), you were good for years of walking.

Last edited by Celjabba; 10-26-2016 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 10-26-2016, 02:46 PM   #15
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Default Re: Armored... Shoes?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Five trainings per week. Which is of course not the same as low-intensity use for 8-16 hours daily, but still.

Now, the more general-purpose sports shoes (as opposed running shoes) I have also worn daily throughout the warm half of the year, and for parts of training time, and they seemed to last for a couple half-year periods too. Sure, they get old, but not rapidly.

Regarding the trend, there's of course the issue of tradeoffs. High-performance shoes are likely to be Fine or Very Fine (skill bonus) and Cheap (maintenance), just like many modern jet fighters tend to be Very Cheap in terms of maintenance by GURPS Spaceships benchmarks. Outdoor/soldier shoes are likely to be built to last or at least not to fail too suddenly, since unlike fighter jets they can't afford to have a huge 'logistic tail'.
I have seen and owned various extremes. In Gurps term, I would rate my current hiking shoes (Meindl) as 'fine' both in skill and durability. Since my feet are oddly shaped and asymetric, I am looking at some made to measure ones (altberg) that would be 'very fine' in both (or perhaps 'fine' and equipment bond ?) , but the price is a concern. My old Belgian army ABL boots are very durable ('fine' or perhaps even 'very fine' ?) but 'normal' in confort. Most cheap(price) hiking shoes are 'Cheap' in durability, you get what you pay for... but on the other hand, 'cheap' as skill hiking shoes are rare nowadays,
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Old 10-26-2016, 03:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: Armored... Shoes?

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Which only gets worse if you have a defective gait for whatever reason - you get a wacky wear pattern that the manufacturer could never have anticipated, and it overall gets even worse.

Case in point, my feet have extraordinarily high arches (like, I have trouble tying up shoes unless I get mens double-wide). This makes my gait unstable and I tend to roll onto the sides of my feet. I wear that part more than it's designed to, which makes the bottom of my shoes rounder, which makes me roll side to side more, and then one day I'm minding my own damn business on flat concrete and massively sprain[1] my ankle as my foot rolls right over and my ankle folds up.

I'd worn those shoes down almost to the padding, which was a terrible idea. I got scolded in the ER. I replace them more often now.

Smart materials have potential, with adaptive support and the ability to indicate when they're dangerously worn, and to tell you that you should see someone about your funny feet. Bioplas shoes that self-heal would be pretty awesome.

[1] The kind of sprain where it would have been kinder to break my ankle.
I assume most UT societies would have easy medical care to correct such "minor" deformities and bad habitual gaits like ours.

(I have very wide, very flat "duck feet" and am sure that I jog wrongly, but curiously, walk and run adequately.
Within days of jogging a single mile, my right hip explodes with pain and injury. It blows up my blood sugar, so I know it's not "just" pain. But I'm doing fine running/walking greater distances and even slightly faster.)
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Old 10-27-2016, 08:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: Armored... Shoes?

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Depends on how much you use them. For daily use, maybe six months. And the trend is towards lighter and better padded, not more durable.
I've known some fitness freaks, the ones that do the most running, actually rotate anywhere from 3 to 5 pairs of running shoes, and are replacing shoes usually within a year, but these are freaks that train for marathons.
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Old 10-27-2016, 08:37 PM   #18
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Default Re: Armored... Shoes?

I "only" walk about five miles a day and I'm still replacing the shoes I walk to and from work in every 4-8 months. The shoes I wear on the job don't seem to wear out at any predictable kind of speed but rarely last more than a year.
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Old 10-27-2016, 08:55 PM   #19
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Default Re: Armored... Shoes?

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Originally Posted by Warlockco View Post
I've known some fitness freaks, the ones that do the most running, actually rotate anywhere from 3 to 5 pairs of running shoes, and are replacing shoes usually within a year, but these are freaks that train for marathons.
I don't run anywhere near that much, but being over 200 lbs on size 8.5 flat feet with a wobbly gait makes for some harsh shoe punishment.
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Old 10-27-2016, 09:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: Armored... Shoes?

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I "only" walk about five miles a day and I'm still replacing the shoes I walk to and from work in every 4-8 months. The shoes I wear on the job don't seem to wear out at any predictable kind of speed but rarely last more than a year.
I think one factor is what worn out means to each of us. I often wait until actual holes appear, and my GF's had to tape some of hers up while raising the dough to replace them. I imagine others buy new ones when they "merely" lose optimal function.
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