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Old 10-12-2016, 12:38 PM   #11
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Default Re: High/Ultra-Tech Versions of Low-Tech Armor

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Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
IIRC the author of the Steel Corselet in HT has said that it should be DR10 from the front and DR4 from behind (this will effect weight calculations)
Really? Hmm. In that case it should come closer to the LT II calculations. I guess halve it for the front (9.45 lbs) and do the back separate...

DR 10 Front, DR 4 Back, $1323, 13.23 lbs.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:38 PM   #12
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Default Re: High/Ultra-Tech Versions of Low-Tech Armor

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Not according to the hit location diagram in Basic Set p. 282. The groin location only covers the groin, not location 11. The Torso location in HT covers areas 9-11.
B552:Human and Humanoid Hit Location Table:
9-10 Torso (0)
11 Groin (-3)
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:40 PM   #13
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Default Re: High/Ultra-Tech Versions of Low-Tech Armor

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Originally Posted by weby View Post
B552:Human and Humanoid Hit Location Table:
9-10 Torso (0)
11 Groin (-3)
They can't both be correct.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:43 PM   #14
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Default Re: High/Ultra-Tech Versions of Low-Tech Armor

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They can't both be correct.
What is correct has been 'clarified' by Low-Tech.

;-D
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: High/Ultra-Tech Versions of Low-Tech Armor

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What is correct has been 'clarified' by Low-Tech.

;-D
The reuse of a term to specify a different thing without giving errata on the old usage is certainly "clarifying".
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:53 PM   #16
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Default Re: High/Ultra-Tech Versions of Low-Tech Armor

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They can't both be correct.
That is Gurps rules in quite many places.

One can trace the hit location confusion from third edition where location 11 was a large area on the lower abdomen including hips and more called the groin. then in 4th edition they did not change the hit location name or probability to hit but drew that picture on 282, that is a LOT smaller area than the 3rd edition picture on page 211 of the basic set, revised.

Then someone noticed at some point that the 12.5% probability to hit such small area did not make sense and changed things again in LT.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: High/Ultra-Tech Versions of Low-Tech Armor

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They can't both be correct.
Or they can have a history of messy terminology, which is true even in Basic -- a slightly different version of the diagram on B282 appears on B399, and in the text right next to the diagram it says "Groin (-3): the lower torso". It's simplest to assume that the diagram is just wrong, since a -3 to hit location should be significantly larger than is shown on the diagram.
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Old 10-12-2016, 01:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: High/Ultra-Tech Versions of Low-Tech Armor

Right. In Basic, the Abdomen is basically in the 9-10 range. That is the torso.
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Old 10-12-2016, 01:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: High/Ultra-Tech Versions of Low-Tech Armor

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Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
It should also only cover the chest, not the entire torso.
Yep


Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent View Post
Really? Hmm. In that case it should come closer to the LT II calculations. I guess halve it for the front (9.45 lbs) and do the back separate...

DR 10 Front, DR 4 Back, $1323, 13.23 lbs.
If the front is DR10 and the back DR4 (and assuming back and front are same area), I'd take the total weight divide by 14 and multiply by 10 to get the front and multiply by 4 to get the back

8.57lbs for the front and 3.43lbs for the back

(edit: this is a simplification as even the back and front is the same in terms of the area being covered, the front plate is likely to be angled more than the back plate allowing for relative reduced weight for the same protection).

If you use the chest location/area and armour by material design rules to retroactively derive material values from the pyramid articles I mentioned, you end up with very, very good steel (WM = 0.40)

Last edited by Tomsdad; 10-14-2016 at 12:00 AM. Reason: Point about angled protection
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Old 10-12-2016, 01:17 PM   #20
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Default Re: High/Ultra-Tech Versions of Low-Tech Armor

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Originally Posted by weby View Post
It only covers hit locations 9-10, the same that are said to be chest in LT. So it already does only cover chest by LT definitions...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
Not according to the hit location diagram in Basic Set p. 282. The groin location only covers the groin, not location 11. The Torso location in HT covers areas 9-11.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weby View Post
B552:Human and Humanoid Hit Location Table:
9-10 Torso (0)
11 Groin (-3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
They can't both be correct.


Pg282 doesn't number hit locations it just groups areas into broader categories (areas that are defined with location numbers elsewhere), one such group is:

Body = Neck, Torso & Groin

i.e. Torso and Groin are separate, even if they are grouped under 'Body' along with Neck, but "Body" never gets a hit location range and doesn't appear elsewhere*)


Pg552 Gives you hit location ranges for those sub areas Groin is 11, Torso is 9-10, Neck 17-18,


Pg398 defines the Torso location as containing chest and abdomen (this is also the area HT has the Corselet covering)

As noted LT then later divides the Torso again into Abdomen and Chest which are now separate locations Chest (9-10), Abdomen (11), groin now being subsumed into the abdomen, but still capable of being separately targeted as per Dan's rules in Load outs.

And as Dan has already pointed out breastplate etc generally only cover the chest location and not the abdomen

so all pages are consistent but they are talking about slightly different things. Not hugely clear I agree!



*actually not quite true, the buff coat in basic pg 283 and ballistic suit in pg284 are cited as covering the 'body' as are various body suits in UT, but it's not ever referenced as a hit location in combat with a number range. So as by pg292 they cover Torso, Neck and Groin

Last edited by Tomsdad; 10-12-2016 at 11:28 PM.
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