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Old 09-20-2016, 02:33 PM   #11
Flyndaran
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Default Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless?

I think I remember just such a dummy in Young Hercules; Skepticus, I think, that just believed the hero was very strong, but of course not an actual son of the mythical gods.
Oops, after a quick search, it was actually Pythagorus that disbelieved.
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Last edited by Flyndaran; 09-20-2016 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 09-20-2016, 03:23 PM   #12
sir_pudding
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Default Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless?

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Originally Posted by Kuroshima View Post
I personally changed bless to give "destiny points" (from Impulse Buys) equal to the level, lasts until the next sunrise, and cant be cast once per day per target. It's still an awesome spell, and the characters don't leave home without it, but it's no longer THAT awesome.
Yeah, giving it a duration fixes a lot of the issues, giving Destiny Points is a nice touch, although I think I'd like that as a separate spell than one that gives a bonus to most rolls (which I still would like to have; GURPS Magic spells really don't seem to have a lot of generally applicable buffs).

What about limiting to bonus to skill and attribute rolls, with half the bonus adding to defense rolls? And then giving it say a 10 minute duration without the "burn-out" clause?
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Old 09-20-2016, 06:13 PM   #13
simply Nathan
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Default Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless?

The simplest way possible: By not including it in my list of available spells.
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Old 09-21-2016, 11:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless?

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Originally Posted by Railstar View Post
I go the opposite way to some others and institutionalise it.
This.

I know it doesn't hold up long in a battle, but I'm trying to figure out the economic implications. How long is it likely to last, giving +1 to everything, if cast on a smith? A farmer? These guys can't afford $500/wk and probably not $500/mo, but they could sure afford it annually, and it seems likely to pay for itself if it lasts a year for folks in non-hazardous occupations. For mariners, I'm guessing it could pay for itself on a per-voyage basis with reduced insurance costs. Modifying with a fixed duration answers the question, makes the item version way over-priced, and generally limits blessings to the wealthy who can renew it regularly. My campaign assumptions yield $500 for a 1pt blessing; even the wealthy won't pay that daily, if that's the fixed duration.
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Old 09-22-2016, 08:18 AM   #15
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Default Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless?

It's probitively expensive to cast in the middle of a dungeon, usually it gets cast in town. If you don't like it, I think that the solution is to throw things at the party on the way to the dungeon (i.e. that whole Wilderness Adventures book) and to be merciless in having it pop like an excitable puppy in service of its master when bad things happen. Give the players an option to use it or not and they won't unless they're confident that they won't survive (since they'll get +1 on all of their HT checks to stay conscious or resist stunning from the bless, why burn it if it's just going to cause them to lose an arm instead of getting hit in the torso?)

The cleric might want to recast the Blessing on the trail, but random encounters are always a problem in and out of the dungeon. If he wants to an hour to refresh each blessing (10 min casting + 50 min recovery) then alright, roll two random encounter checks per and secretly bump up the chances of drawing the attention of Supernatural Evil because you're throwing around lots of Holy Stuff and they hate that with all of their soul. Something comes up after the first check? The cleric starts the encounter at half FP or worse. Require that, to refresh blessings, the party can't move and suddenly they're losing valuable travel time and burning through their rations as well.

(Do this for Wizards too. If they want to cast the spells in the morning that's fine, but they're not recovering FP until they stop and take a break. Make the party to make timecards if you need to)

If they make it to the dungeon with blessings intact then congratulations: now your chances of keeping the thing active plummet like an overconfident thief into an illusioned pit trap menacing with spikes of poisonwood.
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Old 09-22-2016, 09:22 AM   #16
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless?

I actually haven't bless much . . . the number of pre reqs, the FP cost, and the 'only on others' makes it unpopular

Computer programming is very much like religion, you write great swaths of text understandable only to those enlightened in the sacred mysteries, and read through and try to understand the cryptic writings of the long dead ancestors who came before, and each system is a living thing passed through many hands where the original intent is long forgotten

Faith is also very important in programming! The Faith Based Testing model is a tried and true approach
Programmer,'Hi User! I have made changes to your program, you should test it!'
User, 'No, we have faith in you! Just move it to Production'
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Old 09-22-2016, 10:05 AM   #17
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Default Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless?

I permit the use of bless to be specific instead of general. " may all your children be born healthy" uses the effects of blessing for childbirth only. "May your sword always defend you well" uses blessing only for parries. "May your aim always be true" when cast on an archer etc. Adds more flavor as it were.
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Old 09-22-2016, 02:41 PM   #18
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Default Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gef View Post
I know it doesn't hold up long in a battle, but I'm trying to figure out the economic implications. How long is it likely to last, giving +1 to everything, if cast on a smith? A farmer? These guys can't afford $500/wk and probably not $500/mo, but they could sure afford it annually, and it seems likely to pay for itself if it lasts a year for folks in non-hazardous occupations.
How often are one of those fellows the victim of something that would burn up the Bless? I figure it's likely to be pretty darn rare, in that you'll probably have many farmers and blacksmiths be able to get away with a single Bless for most of their life (once aging rolls come into play, they'll probably lose it quickly, but won't age quite as quickly as their peers). That +1 is going to let them get things done in roughly 90% of the time of their peers (by trading it in to work faster), meaning either they have a bit more leisure time or will produce roughly 10% (technically 11.111%, but we'll round things off a bit) more than normal. For jobs that are already variable based on MoS, that 10% per +1 is already built in. According to LTC3, a TL4 full time Smith makes $990/month, while a part-time Village Blacksmith makes only $440/month. A well-to-do free Farmer makes $750/month, while a Serf/Sharecropper (a farmer working someone else's land) makes only $375/month. A Bless spell will increase their monthly pay by $99, $44, $75, and $37.50, respectively. They can thus afford a Bless spell roughly every 5 months, 1 year, 7 months, and 14 months, respectively. However, someone like a Serf may not be able to hold onto enough money at a time to have that $500 to get the initial Bless spell - an enterprising cleric or mage would need to give him a Bless on loan (likely with an additional charge, and some sort of collateral). The Smith can probably afford a Bless, and I suspect the free Farmer can as well, but the Village Blacksmith and Sharecropper would need to think twice about it - although, arguably, anything that ruins the Bless before it's paid itself off is probably something that would have caused more damage than whatever of the $500 remained to be paid off. Also, keep in mind that the above is just considering how much they are making off of the improved ability to do their job, and doesn't consider the fact that they're getting better sleep, aren't getting sick as often, don't pull muscles or fatigue as quickly when lifting heavy loads, are more likable to those around them, and so forth.
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Old 09-22-2016, 10:55 PM   #19
Gef
 
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Default Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless?

Thanks, Varyon.

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
How often are one of those fellows the victim of something that would burn up the Bless?
Depends on how bad the triggering event has to be. Flu season? You need a Blessing annually, because the blessing doesn't know about other healing magic you have access to. More serious disease, or a horrible accident? You need one every few years; I can think of a few times in my life, car crash or near miss, when a Bless would've been used up.

Quote:
That +1 is going to let them get things done in roughly 90% of the time of their peers (by trading it in to work faster), meaning either they have a bit more leisure time or will produce roughly 10% ... more than normal.
My campaign assumptions are that there are 3k practicing wizards of each college per 10M pop. If a third of metemagic wizards are in the blessing business (journeyman level with Shortcut to Power), each has to Bless 1000 people per year, just 4 per day, to cover the entire population annually. Further assuming typical recipients split the benefit between greater productivity and more leisure, and you get 5% productivity increase, pure profit, and that's not counting the improved morale that comes from having a more pleasant life. I wonder if that's enough to put low performers out of work, with attendant social ills, or if you need mass production for that.

A sharecropper may not make enough take home pay to purchase annual blessings, but the lord on whose manor he works may make enough to justify blessing his crew. Over time, these lords would probably figure out where the sweet spot is: One blessing every other year? Every 5? My guess is every 3 years, but again, that's where something less hazy regarding terminal conditions would be helpful.

Last edited by Gef; 09-23-2016 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 09-22-2016, 11:00 PM   #20
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Default Re: [Std Magic] How have you fixed Bless?

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
I permit the use of bless to be specific instead of general.
One fear my griffin-rider PCs have is plummeting from altitude, pretty much guaranteed fatality without magic. A specific blessing would save their lives if that happened and wouldn't be used up by any lesser danger.
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