[DF] Beyond the Dungeon

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I don't think that DF rules for this kind of thing and realistic rules for establishing or managing settlements are actually likely to be very similar.

There is a difference between Dungeon Fantasy, Fantasy and Realistic.
I would start with Realistic and add Fantasy to it in the form of so and so spells or powers can have this effect. Similar to Thaumatology Urban magics.
Think City Management from Pyramid given the full book treatment and covering a country or state.

However I think DF is geared towards something far simpler and would better be done as an article or How to use this in a DF campaign section of a more complicated book.

[Carnifex]

Running a court intrigue game with Dungeon Fantasy probably would not end well.

[Anders]

Horror. I plan on adapting Ravenloft for DFRPG. Obviously GURPS cannot do this, but maybe a Pyramid issue about Horror and DF...? just putting that out there.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Refplace

There is a difference between Dungeon Fantasy, Fantasy and Realistic.
I would start with Realistic and add Fantasy to it in the form of so and so spells or powers can have this effect. Similar to Thaumatology Urban magics.
Think City Management from Pyramid given the full book treatment and covering a country or state.

However I think DF is geared towards something far simpler and would better be done as an article or How to use this in a DF campaign section of a more complicated book.

In a DF game you mainly want to know how many hirelings it gives you, how much of a truly ridiculous amount of treasure it can convert into currency, goods and services, what adventuring gear it produces and how often it is attacked by wandering monsters.

A general GURPS treatment on the subject is going to be primarily concerned with more practical topics like: how people actually establish new settlements, land law and politics, settler happiness, criminal justice, food production, daily life and economics, and conventional military logistics. All of these things should probably be either totally ignored or handwaved for DF.

[ajardoor]

Originally Posted by Anders

Horror. I plan on adapting Ravenloft for DFRPG. Obviously GURPS cannot do this, but maybe a Pyramid issue about Horror and DF...? just putting that out there.

Well, GURPS Horror is the book you combine with Fantasy to get Ravenloft, you can safely ignore DF for the most part.

Stress, Derangement and Corruption are the key mechanics.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

A general GURPS treatment on the subject is going to be primarily concerned with more practical topics like: how people actually establish new settlements, land law and politics, settler happiness, criminal justice, food production, daily life and economics, and conventional military logistics. All of these things should probably be either totally ignored or handwaved for DF.

A couple of those would be in a DF treatment, namely criminal justice and military logistics. The Town Watch and the Militia are common tropes in fantasy gaming. They'd be abstracted, of course, but you'd want their basic stats for starting a fight with them, quick rules for how often they show up when called, and quick punishments for transgressing them.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

A couple of those would be in a DF treatment, namely criminal justice and military logistics. The Town Watch and the Militia are common tropes in fantasy gaming. They'd be abstracted, of course, but you'd want their basic stats for starting a fight with them, quick rules for how often they show up when called, and quick punishments for transgressing them.

Dungeon Fantasy doesn't care how juries are selected, or how many nails a militia needs and how they get them. These are boring details. That Nd guards respond to a disturbance and that your followers have mail armor automatically because you have the right blacksmith upgrades might be in the same sphere but arbitrary fiat-based solutions aren't appropriate for general GURPS books.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Dungeon Fantasy doesn't care how juries are selected, or how many nails a militia needs and how they get them. These are boring details.

I never said it was. Nor did I imply as such.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

That Nd guards respond to a disturbance and that your followers have mail armor automatically because you have the right blacksmith upgrades might be in the same sphere but arbitrary fiat-based solutions aren't appropriate for general GURPS books.

The Nd guards, however, is exactly about what I was talking. This isn't an arbitrary amount; it could vary based on CR and settlement size, and has to be enough to challenge the PCs.

[Humabout]

Originally Posted by dripton

The biggest gap I see remaining is city adventures. DF currently abstracts Town as The Place Where You Buy And Sell Stuff And Get Healed, which is fine for some games. But I can definitely see room for City Adventures book. And maybe also some expanded Town rules for people who don't plan to actually adventure there, but who enjoy a more detailed home base.

Hmm...I think I have something for Pyramid on this...

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

I never said it was. Nor did I imply as such.

When I wrote "criminal justice" and "military logistics", I meant the legal system and beans, bullets and bandages.

The Nd guards, however, is exactly about what I was talking. This isn't an arbitrary amount; it could vary based on CR and settlement size, and has to be enough to challenge the PCs.

"Challenge" shouldn't have anything to do with it in the more serious treatment. When say Jamestown was founded, it wasn't garrisoned on the basis of what might challenge Captain Frobisher in a fight.