Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-05-2017, 01:03 PM   #51
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf23k View Post
Just because you think you have God as a Patron doesn't mean it's necessarily true. Could be "Divine Favor" just represents a different way of shaping Mana then common Wizardry, which is likely the opinion of more agnostic Mages.

But then that's my opinion. You're entitled to handle your Banestorm your way, I'll handle my Banestorm my way.
What happens when the character prays for a miracle that exceeds the limits of plausible deniability?
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2017, 01:08 PM   #52
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
What happens when the character prays for a miracle that exceeds the limits of plausible deniability?
Like what? give an example. I'm not seeing any instances.
__________________
Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2017, 01:52 PM   #53
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Like what? give an example. I'm not seeing any instances.
"Oh, Allah, the all-merciful, if you are willing, reveal the Mahdi to us, peace be upon him, in this our hour of need."
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2017, 02:21 PM   #54
ravenfish
 
Join Date: May 2007
Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
"Oh, Allah, the all-merciful, if you are willing, reveal the Mahdi to us, peace be upon him, in this our hour of need."




Note that Divine Favor is never guaranteed to give the exact response you requested (unless you bought that precise ability with points, and I don't think "Detect: Mahdi" is listed in the book as a purchasable ability). If it does derive its power from God, then He is only going to tell you as much about His plan as He wants mortals to know (which, if precedent is any guide, tends to be short on precise details when dealing with long-term matters). In a campaign where Divine Favor is actual divine favor, I, as a GM, would give a player who used it to ask that question a very elliptic reply indeed (similarly, requests to imminentize the escatcheon or promote someone to prophet status are unlikely to be granted as such). Since a very ellipitic reply is also what is expected if Divine Favor is actually powered by magic or belief or whatever, this winds up not helping much in determining its true nature.

Come to that, isn't the Mahdi supposed to appear on Earth rather than Yrth?
__________________
I predicted GURPS:Dungeon Fantasy several hours before it came out and all I got was this lousy sig.

Last edited by ravenfish; 10-05-2017 at 02:24 PM.
ravenfish is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2017, 02:21 PM   #55
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
"Oh, Allah, the all-merciful, if you are willing, reveal the Mahdi to us, peace be upon him, in this our hour of need."
Oh that? That's a common prayer with a common answer: "I will reveal the Madhi my own due time. Seek not to counsel thy God."

If a PC rolls really really well on a request, They still don't get to have the entirety of written tradition bow to their will. Have their God call them to find (or be) a great person who will fill the hour of need without ushering in the end of the world. This is just basic divine favor and GMing.

On a bad roll, they get REALLY chewed out for impertinence.
__________________
Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2017, 03:12 PM   #56
SteamBub
 
SteamBub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Mojave
Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf23k View Post
Just because you think you have God as a Patron doesn't mean it's necessarily true. Could be "Divine Favor" just represents a different way of shaping Mana then common Wizardry, which is likely the opinion of more agnostic Mages.
I would imagine that the power is being shaped by a higher plane than mana. Being that Yrth is a place that pulls things in, it could be siphoning it from somewhere.
SteamBub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2017, 03:21 PM   #57
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenfish View Post
Note that Divine Favor is never guaranteed to give the exact response you requested (unless you bought that precise ability with points, and I don't think "Detect: Mahdi" is listed in the book as a purchasable ability). If it does derive its power from God, then He is only going to tell you as much about His plan as He wants mortals to know (which, if precedent is any guide, tends to be short on precise details when dealing with long-term matters). In a campaign where Divine Favor is actual divine favor, I, as a GM, would give a player who used it to ask that question a very elliptic reply indeed (similarly, requests to imminentize the escatcheon or promote someone to prophet status are unlikely to be granted as such). Since a very ellipitic reply is also what is expected if Divine Favor is actually powered by magic or belief or whatever, this winds up not helping much in determining its true nature.
If you take this too far, Divine Favor is useless, the power you call on has to be demonstratable for it to be worth the points at all.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2017, 03:33 PM   #58
ravenfish
 
Join Date: May 2007
Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
If you take this too far, Divine Favor is useless, the power you call on has to be demonstratable for it to be worth the points at all.
Certainly. But, in a world where magic is a demonstrable fact and and accepted part of life, one can perform a great many demonstrable "miracles" without being demonstrably divine. Again, Gurps Banestorm describes people who can zarking teleport after years of religious contemplation, but, because magic is a thing, this is not strong evidence of the existence of a god, much less theirs in particular.

Also: suppose your request is granted, and the ability identifies the Mahdi. How does anyone know the identification is correct? When the end times come, and he rules the world for nine years, you can say "I told you so", but until then, from the point of view of an outsider, pointing to a guy and declaring him to be the chosen one is pretty low on the list of impressive things you can do with your ability.
__________________
I predicted GURPS:Dungeon Fantasy several hours before it came out and all I got was this lousy sig.
ravenfish is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2017, 07:14 PM   #59
LoneWolf23k
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
"Oh, Allah, the all-merciful, if you are willing, reveal the Mahdi to us, peace be upon him, in this our hour of need."
Okay, that's a power I'd call "GM Fiat." But the closest thing you get to that in the Divine Favor book is Divine Guidance, and that gives you "advice, an omen, a warning, or whatever the GM thinks is appropriate." So no, the GM does not have to give you written instructions on exactly where to find the Mahdi, no matter how much time you spend praying for an answer.

There's a reason people say "God works in Mysterious Ways." He doesn't have to give you a straight answer, or even the miracle you ask for.
LoneWolf23k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2017, 12:58 AM   #60
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

If your General Prayers always result in "miracles" that aren't any better than coincidence you paid too much for the ability.

Obviously there's a middle ground, but if general miracle workers were a thing on Yrth, wouldn't someone have noticed already?

This is a setting that charges an Unusual Background premium for high levels of Magery.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
banestorm, gurps banestorm

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.