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Old 09-01-2016, 02:04 AM   #1
bearit
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Flat Cost for Techniques

As the title says, Im attempting to create a data file where techniques are fully leveled by simply paying a flat cost (1 for Average and 2 for Hard). Is this possible?
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Old 09-01-2016, 02:28 PM   #2
ericbsmith
 
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Default Re: Flat Cost for Techniques

This should be pretty easy. All you need to do is create a custom datafile redefining the cost progression of Techniques. Currently they are listed as this:

Code:
Tech/A, cost(1/2/3), base(0), defaultstat(%default), relname(def), subzero(yes)
Tech/H, cost(2/3/4), base(0), defaultstat(%default), relname(def), subzero(yes)
We just need to add the appropriate headers and change it to this:

Code:
Version=3
*******************************************************************************************************
[SKILLTYPES]
******************************************************************************************************
Tech/A, cost(1/1/1), base(0), defaultstat(%default), relname(def), subzero(yes)
Tech/H, cost(2/2/2), base(0), defaultstat(%default), relname(def), subzero(yes)
This will not "fully level" the techniques when added (that would take a lot more work) but the cost for levels after the first will be free, so you can level them yourself. Note that on existing characters you will need to Resynchronize the Skill Types after loading this GDF to get it to work.

(NOTE: I personally don't recommend doing this. The skill penalty of techniques is set based on the techniques difficulty; allowing the penalty to be bought of completely so cheaply means that many players may concentrate on buying the more difficult techniques and ignore the easier ones.)
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Last edited by ericbsmith; 09-01-2016 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 09-01-2016, 03:06 PM   #3
bearit
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: Flat Cost for Techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
This should be pretty easy. All you need to do is create a custom datafile redefining the cost progression of Techniques. Currently they are listed as this:

Code:
Tech/A, cost(1/2/3), base(0), defaultstat(%default), relname(def), subzero(yes)
Tech/H, cost(2/3/4), base(0), defaultstat(%default), relname(def), subzero(yes)
We just need to add the appropriate headers and change it to this:

Code:
Version=3
*******************************************************************************************************
[SKILLTYPES]
******************************************************************************************************
Tech/A, cost(1/1/1), base(0), defaultstat(%default), relname(def), subzero(yes)
Tech/H, cost(2/2/2), base(0), defaultstat(%default), relname(def), subzero(yes)
This will not "fully level" the techniques when added (that would take a lot more work) but the cost for levels after the first will be free, so you can level them yourself. Note that on existing characters you will need to Resynchronize the Skill Types after loading this GDF to get it to work.

(NOTE: I personally don't recommend doing this. The skill penalty of techniques is set based on the techniques difficulty; allowing the penalty to be bought of completely so cheaply means that many players may concentrate on buying the more difficult techniques and ignore the easier ones.)
Unfortunately, I have found that this doesn't work as suggested. Two things have happened:

1) Either I Resynchronize a character sheet with no techniques, then add the techniques, and am then only allowed to take one level

2) Or I Resynchronize a character sheet with more then one level in a technique, and get a divide by zero error and gca4 crashes.
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Old 09-01-2016, 04:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: Flat Cost for Techniques

Well now... that should have worked. I never tested it though, and now that I have it looks like GCA just doesn't like it and I'm not sure how to get it to do what you want. I'll have to think on it, or maybe Armin will stop by and have a suggestion.
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Old 09-01-2016, 07:42 PM   #5
Armin
 
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Default Re: Flat Cost for Techniques

I don't actually understand what's being attempted here.

Skills and techniques are intended to be costed on a per-level basis, so they're not really designed to work with a 0 point-per-level cost.

Or is the intent that there's only 1 level of the technique, ever, and you just want the user to buy that one level? If that's so, then entering the cost() as cost(1/0) or cost(2/0) should do it.

If you want to have them pay 1 or 2 points, and then still be able to level up the technique for whatever other levels may normally exist, for free, them I'm pretty well stumped on how that would work.
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Old 09-01-2016, 07:50 PM   #6
bearit
 
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Default Re: Flat Cost for Techniques

The attempt is to lower the cost of techniques in order to promote their taking over simply leveling the default skill. My group in particular doesnt have much experience with techniques or more "colorful" combat at all. Lowering the cost of techniques is an attempt to get my group to consider them more.
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Old 09-01-2016, 08:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: Flat Cost for Techniques

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearit View Post
The attempt is to lower the cost of techniques in order to promote their taking over simply leveling the default skill. My group in particular doesnt have much experience with techniques or more "colorful" combat at all. Lowering the cost of techniques is an attempt to get my group to consider them more.
I'm sorry, I understood the basic intent, it's the mechanical intent that I don't understand.

Do you really want techniques to cost 0 points per level after the first? That just isn't possible, because it's not possible to charge different amounts of 0.

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Old 09-01-2016, 08:24 PM   #8
bearit
 
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Default Re: Flat Cost for Techniques

Thanks for the effort. Would there be any way to alter the tags of the individual techniques in gca4 so that the first level would increase by a custom amount?

So that buying 1 level stepped up the technique by mutliple levels?
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Old 09-01-2016, 09:06 PM   #9
ericbsmith
 
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Default Re: Flat Cost for Techniques

Honestly, at this point the Techniques are essentially just small advantages. I'd suggest creating a data file where you include them as Perks costing 1 or 2 points. If you have the Perk you can use the technique at full skill level; if you don't you have to use the default value.

Honestly, though, if you want to encourage players to use techniques the best thing you can do is print them a couple copies of the Technique Cheat Sheet. The biggest barrier to players using all the optional rules tends to be their lack of knowledge of what the options are.
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Old 09-01-2016, 09:33 PM   #10
Armin
 
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Default Re: Flat Cost for Techniques

Aside from what Eric said above, the below just occurred to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearit View Post
Thanks for the effort. Would there be any way to alter the tags of the individual techniques in gca4 so that the first level would increase by a custom amount?

So that buying 1 level stepped up the technique by mutliple levels?
Not the various techniques, no. However, I think there's a way to flip that on its head, in a way that is much simpler for you.

You could make the technique costs be fractional point values, with one caveat--the last two MUST be whole numbers that result in a difference greater than 0 when rounded off. So...

Code:
Version=3
********************************************
[SKILLTYPES]
********************************************
Tech/A, cost(0.25/0.5/0.75/1/2), base(0), defaultstat(%default), relname(def), subzero(yes)
Tech/H, cost(0.25/0.5/0.75/1/2), base(0), defaultstat(%default), relname(def), subzero(yes)
Then you can just be sure that you always spend whole points on the character, and you'll get the jumps that you want just by changing the fractional values to the increments that you want. You can extend the costs out as far as you need, remembering not to use 0 values, and keeping the caveat in mind.

The caveat, and why those example cost values end with /1/2, is because GCA uses integer math for some reason to determine what step you're at based on the points spent if you go off the end of the cost list, and doing that requires division, and if the difference between the last two entries rounds down to 0, you get a crash.
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