Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Board and Card Games > Car Wars

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-15-2016, 10:00 PM   #41
ColBosch
 
ColBosch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Default Re: Cars Wars 6E - What We Know - 1st Post will be updated over time

Oh, that's an easy enough thing to fix. Double all damage numbers. Problem solved, print it! :D

...seriously, I don't expect SJ Games to ever sacrifice product quality just to meet a self-imposed deadline. If it takes another few months, so be it.
__________________
Keeper of the GURPS Banner
ColBosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 03:26 AM   #42
schoon
 
schoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Oakland, CA, USA
Default Re: Cars Wars 6E - What We Know - 1st Post will be updated over time

Better that it be done right than "right now."
schoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 02:39 PM   #43
PresidentTwoeagles
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Default Re: Cars Wars 6E - What We Know - 1st Post will be updated over time

I don't know about how the game plays besides analyzing photos and Phil's blog (possibly obsolete) entries on BGG. What can they do to make it shorter? What aspects are taking the most (or too much) time? Creating vehicles? Movement? Resolving control rolls (out of control tokens, etc.)? Resolving combat? Dropped weapons? Rams? Resolving damage? Dealing with modifiers on the component cards? Dice rolls?

Did the longer play time have to do with people being unfamiliar with the game? What about the time taken to think of strategy? It's not chess, but some people might take some time to think a few moves ahead (as long as it's not running into a wall)

Cutting 30 minutes/player down to 15 minutes sounds like a lot of fundamental changes have to be made.

Last edited by PresidentTwoeagles; 11-16-2016 at 02:44 PM.
PresidentTwoeagles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 04:07 PM   #44
ColBosch
 
ColBosch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Default Re: Cars Wars 6E - What We Know - 1st Post will be updated over time

Maybe, maybe not. My comment about just doubling damage values was flippant, but sometimes it really is something that simple.

You know what's funny? I do not work with SJ Games, but I can tell you exactly what they're doing, because I can read minds. They're poring over every aspect of the rules, checking their playtest notes, and making a list of anything that could explain the slower-than-desired play. Next - I can predict the future, too! - they will change one aspect at a time and run a whole bunch of playtest games. Then they'll do the same for the next point, and the next, and the one after those. Once they've got their raw data, and hopefully found places to speed up the game, they'll examine the consequences of those changes, and cross their fingers that they found all of the weird edge cases that could give a player an unfair advantage.

Then they'll playtest a bunch more times.

And then they'll invite the retailers and distributors back in for another round of outside playtesting.

And then, if the people who will be first purchasing the game still like it, then SJ Games can start manufacturing the final components. Somewhere between the first clause of the previous sentence and the second, SJ Games will run a Kickstarter campaign to judge direct fan interest (and allow for preorders, and build word-of-mouth).

Modern game design is so much more than just hammering out 75,000 words of bad Tolkien fanfic and getting a buddy to paint up a woman in not enough chainmail for the cover. And trust me, because I know, not going through the proper steps can kill your product - and even your company - dead.
__________________
Keeper of the GURPS Banner
ColBosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 06:37 AM   #45
philreed
Chief Executive Officer
 
philreed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Cars Wars 6E - What We Know - 1st Post will be updated over time

Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentTwoeagles View Post
Cutting 30 minutes/player down to 15 minutes sounds like a lot of fundamental changes have to be made.
Not a lot. We _think_ we have identified the one biggest time drag, but the challenge is balancing fun and playing time. Stripping the game down to 15 minutes/player is useless if it erases the fun.

The trick is to minimize the fiddly and delays and get people doing what matters most: Driving fast and blowing things up.
philreed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 12:48 AM   #46
TurboCooler
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Default Re: Cars Wars 6E - What We Know - 1st Post will be updated over time

Just getting back from a business trip and catching up.

Rather that SJG get things ironed out and make the game great than to give us something less than what it could be.

My only opinion is that a hard 60min is not necessary. If you can get something between 60min and 90min that would be fine.

I play Battletech Alpha Strike and that game can vary in play time but still much less than the classic battletech

People want 60-90min games because everyone is too busy to play longer games. However, the 60-90min time is the sweet spot.

Forcing something into 60min and throwing away detail does not make sense to me. But if you can tweak things with scoring cards/tables, or counters or whatever needs to be done to speed up, that is great.
TurboCooler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 02:53 AM   #47
schoon
 
schoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Oakland, CA, USA
Default Re: Cars Wars 6E - What We Know - 1st Post will be updated over time

Phil - at what point will SJG be ready for community Playtesting/involvement (limited or otherwise)?
schoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 07:09 AM   #48
philreed
Chief Executive Officer
 
philreed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Cars Wars 6E - What We Know - 1st Post will be updated over time

Quote:
Originally Posted by schoon View Post
Phil - at what point will SJG be ready for community Playtesting/involvement (limited or otherwise)?
We have done a little public playtesting already. At this point, until we make adjustments, it is tough to say.

We would rather take the time to do it right rather than rush to an already-crowded market with a game we're not completely happy with.
philreed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 01:58 PM   #49
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Cars Wars 6E - What We Know - 1st Post will be updated over time

I admit it, I awwww'd at my hopes of having it for 1D4con next year [first week of May] being dashed, but I'm with the others...would much rather have the game right over having it right now. Got enough to spend cash on right this moment anyway...Ogre Minis, Ogre 6th is coming soon, I need to expand my demo library even more...

From what I've seen [mainly on Phil's blog], it looks like it'll be a good spin-off...I have a few friends who love the fiddly simulationist nature of Classic, but would also love to be able to play it with family members who love the premise but don't have the patience to bring themselves up to speed with the original chit-monster.

I didn't see a reply go by [doesn't mean it wasn't posted, I'm a straight-up Mr. Magoo sometimes]...Phil, are you able to comment on whether Classic is staying in print after 6E releases?
__________________
Andy Mull
Agent #0460
Lancaster, PA
TheAmishStig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 09:09 PM   #50
woodchuck
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Cars Wars 6E - What We Know - 1st Post will be updated over time

I'm vacillating between "take your time" and "better is the enemy of good enough". I'll just leave this thing in the capable hands of SJ Games.
__________________
Sapor similis pullo.
woodchuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.