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Old 07-25-2016, 11:17 AM   #11
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: [4e] Magic - FP cost enchanting and storing FP.

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Originally Posted by Zoomfarg View Post
I'm gonna be honest, my answer for almost every magic question for GURPS is "buy Thaumatology, use Threshold-Limited Magic, and Use Flexible Magic". The spell tomes are holding you back, friend! Free your mind!

Threshold-limited magic gives you access to unlimited energy at the risk of causing magical disasters--the more energy, the greater the risk..
When it was "Unlimited mana" the potential energy may have been "unlimited" but Thaumatology changes that. As per p.77 if you exceed your Tally you roll on the Calamity table for 3D + the amount the cost that exceeds your tally. If the roll is 29 or higher the spell _automatically_ fails.

So, if you put 48 pts into a spell, your Threshold is 30 and your tally was at 0 you roll 3D+18 and have only a 50% chance of having your spell succeed.

If the Calamity Roll hits 40 the spell fails and you have to roll HT-6 or explode.

So for reasonable success you can't cast spells at much more than a cost of 40 and expect success.
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Old 07-25-2016, 11:49 AM   #12
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Default Re: [4e] Magic - FP cost enchanting and storing FP.

Definitely would go Threshold or some other method to mimic D&D. Dungeon Fantasy went with "Power Items" approach to get more spell output for mages, but I think Threshold is the way to go.
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Old 07-25-2016, 12:44 PM   #13
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Default Re: [4e] Magic - FP cost enchanting and storing FP.

For D&D spellcasting, I would go towards Sorcery, it features reliability in spellcasting that other systems don't have (no roll to cast the spell).

For D&D item generation... Sorcery also has its own system. I haven't truly wrapped my head around it (or any of the other enchanting systems), but it is easier to produce items with than the one in Magic.
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Old 07-25-2016, 02:20 PM   #14
Jose
 
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Default Re: [4e] Magic - FP cost enchanting and storing FP.

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For D&D spellcasting, I would go towards Sorcery, it features reliability in spellcasting that other systems don't have (no roll to cast the spell).

For D&D item generation... Sorcery also has its own system. I haven't truly wrapped my head around it (or any of the other enchanting systems), but it is easier to produce items with than the one in Magic.
Ive already built my caster around spells as skills aka GURPS magic.
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Old 07-25-2016, 02:45 PM   #15
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Default Re: [4e] Magic - FP cost enchanting and storing FP.

Had a feeling. It was as much a response to the numerous calls to Threshold magic, which I don't think will move the normal spell system any further towards D&D than it already is/isn't.

Unfortunately, the Sorcery enchantment system does rest on character point costs. It might be possible to derive reasonable Enchantment Points through prerequisite counts (and a multiplier), at which point the rest of the system should be fine. But that's getting close to just hacking the Magic system to provide desired results (which is certainly simpler).
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Old 07-25-2016, 03:09 PM   #16
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: [4e] Magic - FP cost enchanting and storing FP.

DnD items (at least some versions) require EXP invested into them, so Sorcery does fit

If I was the DM, and wanted cheaper magic items, the first question is, do PCs make items or just NPCs?

If just NPCs, I just price items however I feel like and am done
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Old 07-25-2016, 03:57 PM   #17
Jose
 
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Default Re: [4e] Magic - FP cost enchanting and storing FP.

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
DnD items (at least some versions) require EXP invested into them, so Sorcery does fit

If I was the DM, and wanted cheaper magic items, the first question is, do PCs make items or just NPCs?

If just NPCs, I just price items however I feel like and am done
I'm the only one playing a mage in this campaign, I'm still very reserved about spending points on enchanting due to the very high FP costs and my character being a travelling adventurer.
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Old 07-25-2016, 06:24 PM   #18
Zoomfarg
 
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Default Re: [4e] Magic - FP cost enchanting and storing FP.

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
When it was "Unlimited mana" the potential energy may have been "unlimited" but Thaumatology changes that. As per p.77 if you exceed your Tally you roll on the Calamity table for 3D + the amount the cost that exceeds your tally. If the roll is 29 or higher the spell _automatically_ fails.
Looks like we're both a bit off. According to p. 77, at 29+ the caster must succeed in a will roll equal to the bonus to the calamity check, or the casting fails. Which makes failure really probable, but not automatic.
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Old 07-25-2016, 08:20 PM   #19
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: [4e] Magic - FP cost enchanting and storing FP.

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Originally Posted by Zoomfarg View Post
Looks like we're both a bit off. According to p. 77, at 29+ the caster must succeed in a will roll equal to the bonus to the calamity check, or the casting fails. Which makes failure really probable, but not automatic.
I was wrong about energy costs to penalty. I forgot to divide by 5. So you roll at +18 to Calamity and at -18 to Will at 120 pts of Tally. A roll of Will-18 is more than just a "likely" failure though. It's "roll a natural 3 to succeed".

You also get the Calamity even if/when the spell fails.

I've always assumed that threshold mages who don't limit themselves sharply to very near their Threshold either are self-limiting or hunted down like rabid dogs. I can't see a society where rolling high on the Calamity table is done routinely for things like Enchantment would ever work.

Anyway, out OP is probably well past the stage where large and fundamental rules variations like Threshold Magery can be introduced. There are still things beyond Powerstones though.
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Old 07-27-2016, 05:27 AM   #20
Jose
 
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Default Re: [4e] Magic - FP cost enchanting and storing FP.

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Anyway, out OP is probably well past the stage where large and fundamental rules variations like Threshold Magery can be introduced. There are still things beyond Powerstones though.
Ok, what options are there?

I see:
Cone of power.
Sacrifices.
Paut.

There was also mentioned some magic items:
The mana web and Enchanters bench but I cant really find them.

I'm definently getting powerstones question is if I'm doing enchanting or not.
TBH it seems more like an NPC thing and as much as I like powering up my party its time consuming to the point of the other players hating me for holding them up for months to enchant the fighters sword.
Saying its an NPC thing might be a bit harsh- I can imagine a very specialized caster doing this, but hard regardless.

Last edited by Jose; 07-27-2016 at 05:31 AM. Reason: Added last line.
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