Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-21-2016, 03:50 AM   #1
Tolta
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Default [Psionic Powers] First time Psi-user questions

Hello there! I'm soon to be a part of a campaign that features Psi users and, after reading up on the topic, I have a few questions and I'm also looking for some suggestions.

Firstly, my direct questions:
1. The Psionic power TK Grab suggests that the power is akin to "manipulate
anything you can see as if you had a distant pair of hands", can I take this to mean that the power allows you to utilize two hands to hold two separate items/weapons/etc at once, or, for mechanics reasons, is it only one hand that is 'usable'? Furthermore, if indeed a pair of hands can be controlled individually, what sort of advantages or modifiers would be required to allow the pair of hands to be used in combat, perhaps both being able to attack simultaneously?

2. In case, for the purposes of TK Bullet, there are no pebbles around to be used, would one be able to carry a pouch of reserve stones? Also, what would the weight of this ammunition be? I've looked it up in various books and so far I've only been able to find costs, not weight. Plus, since the campaign will be TL11, would there be any sort of mildly futuristic alternative to pebbles that might work with the skill which could be kept on the character, e.g. shaped metallic shards?

3. Final clear question, is TK Grab as powerful as it seems to be? Within the rules for TK Grab, it states that "you may substitute an IQ-based roll for that skill, if better.", in regards to the usage of hands for things such as judo grabs or flail usage. Does this also extend to non-combat purposes? Could the hands be used for, say, knot tying, where instead of rolling for that skill, the IQ roll could still be substituted, for that example and for any other skill that is relevant to the usage of ones hands?

Now, looking back on my first question, I'm already rather sure that TK Grab would not feasibly allow me to utilize two hands individually, but, since this idea has piqued my interest, is there any way to build a character with this potential? If so, what would be needed? Since I am new to Psis, I'm not overly sure myself, hence my desire to hear suggestions from anyone kind enough to reply here! Also, I would hope that Compartmentalized Mind wouldn't be needed for the sake of utilizing two hands via TK Grab, but I realize that is a possibility. Also, just to clarify, my current idea for using TK Grab would be to use it to 'hold' a zap glove and to use that as a combat option, zapping distant foes while utilizing other Psi techniques, potentially.

Regardless, I'd love for someone to help me out and have a think about TK Grab with me, to ponder about how it could be weaponized to the potential of, say, allowing two separate hands to utilize the same melee weapon and be able to function in combat effectively. Thank you in advance to anyone who will reply!

Last edited by Tolta; 07-21-2016 at 03:54 AM.
Tolta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 04:23 AM   #2
Anders
Banned
 
Anders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Default Re: [Psionic Powers] First time Psi-user questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolta View Post
2. In case, for the purposes of TK Bullet, there are no pebbles around to be used, would one be able to carry a pouch of reserve stones? Also, what would the weight of this ammunition be? I've looked it up in various books and so far I've only been able to find costs, not weight. Plus, since the campaign will be TL11, would there be any sort of mildly futuristic alternative to pebbles that might work with the skill which could be kept on the character, e.g. shaped metallic shards?
Absolutely! Use the weight and cost for a suitable caliber to get the kind of damage you want (e.g., use the weight and cost of 9mm bullets to get Pi+) and buy APHD or something more exotic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolta View Post
3. ... Does this also extend to non-combat purposes? Could the hands be used for, say, knot tying, where instead of rolling for that skill, the IQ roll could still be substituted, for that example and for any other skill that is relevant to the usage of ones hands?
I would definitely allow this as a reason to buy the Attribute Substitution Perk for whatever skill this would be suitable for. I probably wouldn't allow it without such a Perk.
Anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 04:28 AM   #3
Tolta
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Default Re: [Psionic Powers] First time Psi-user questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
Absolutely! Use the weight and cost for a suitable caliber to get the kind of damage you want (e.g., use the weight and cost of 9mm bullets to get Pi+) and buy APHD or something more exotic.

I would definitely allow this as a reason to buy the Attribute Substitution Perk for whatever skill this would be suitable for. I probably wouldn't allow it without such a Perk.
Hmm, sorry to ask more questions, but what exactly is APHD?

Also, I see, I agree with you, buying the perk does seem to make it a lot more fair, as the wording of TK Grab on it's own does sound borderline exploitable to allow someone without a relevant skill to just use TK Grab and substitute it's roll for the skill, e.g. using the ability to perform first aid on someone.
Tolta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 04:30 AM   #4
Anders
Banned
 
Anders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Default Re: [Psionic Powers] First time Psi-user questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolta View Post
Hmm, sorry to ask more questions, but what exactly is APHD?

Also, I see, I agree with you, buying the perk does seem to make it a lot more fair, as the wording of TK Grab on it's own does sound borderline exploitable to allow someone without a relevant skill to just use TK Grab and substitute it's roll for the skill, e.g. using the ability to perform first aid on someone.
Armor Piercing High Density. High-Tech and Ultra-Tech has a metric crapton of different bullet types. Note that you normally can buy no more than 4 Attribute Substitution Perks - I would waive that for a TK user.
Anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 04:38 AM   #5
Tolta
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Default Re: [Psionic Powers] First time Psi-user questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
Armor Piercing High Density. High-Tech and Ultra-Tech has a metric crapton of different bullet types. Note that you normally can buy no more than 4 Attribute Substitution Perks - I would waive that for a TK user.
Ah, I see. I've read through the weapons available in Ultra Tech but I haven't paid much attention to the more conventional ammo types, I'll give them a read over, thanks.

Yeah, I think I'd agree, but, I'll bring this all to the attention of my GM to make sure they're alright with it too. Out of interest, do you have any insight as to my other question, regarding the weaponization of TK Grab? :O
Tolta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 04:40 AM   #6
weby
 
weby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Default Re: [Psionic Powers] First time Psi-user questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolta View Post
Hello there! I'm soon to be a part of a campaign that features Psi users and, after reading up on the topic, I have a few questions and I'm also looking for some suggestions.

Firstly, my direct questions:
1. The Psionic power TK Grab suggests that the power is akin to "manipulate
anything you can see as if you had a distant pair of hands", can I take this to mean that the power allows you to utilize two hands to hold two separate items/weapons/etc at once, or, for mechanics reasons, is it only one hand that is 'usable'? Furthermore, if indeed a pair of hands can be controlled individually, what sort of advantages or modifiers would be required to allow the pair of hands to be used in combat, perhaps both being able to attack simultaneously?
Compartmentalized mind allows for 2 hands to be used with TK. If you want two separate attacks you also need extra attack.

Quote:
2. In case, for the purposes of TK Bullet, there are no pebbles around to be used, would one be able to carry a pouch of reserve stones? Also, what would the weight of this ammunition be? I've looked it up in various books and so far I've only been able to find costs, not weight. Plus, since the campaign will be TL11, would there be any sort of mildly futuristic alternative to pebbles that might work with the skill which could be kept on the character, e.g. shaped metallic shards?
TL 11 is not slightly futuristic.. :)

Basically as far as what you can use depends on the GM. Some require you to pay for extra utility in character points others do not.

The power has "Environmental, Pebbles or equivalent, -10%" from the problem of not always having such. If you always have such then you would not have that modifier.

The same with using more advanced projectiles, some GMs allow such directly others require points to be used.

I would require points in both cases if regular use, buying off the -10% and if carrying something exotic it would be bought as alternate ability. Basically if the fight happens in a place with futuristic ammo laying about you could use such in that encounter without paying points, but if you always carried such around you would need to pay points for it.

Quote:
3. Final clear question, is TK Grab as powerful as it seems to be? Within the rules for TK Grab, it states that "you may substitute an IQ-based roll for that skill, if better.", in regards to the usage of hands for things such as judo grabs or flail usage. Does this also extend to non-combat purposes? Could the hands be used for, say, knot tying, where instead of rolling for that skill, the IQ roll could still be substituted, for that example and for any other skill that is relevant to the usage of ones hands?
Yes. Telekinesis can do anything a hand can(except not punch in this case because of the limitation)
__________________
--
weby's gaming stuff: http://weby.roto.nu
weby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 04:52 AM   #7
Tolta
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Default Re: [Psionic Powers] First time Psi-user questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by weby View Post
~Snip~
Ah, thank you for that response! Hmm, looking at some of the potential modifiers for compartmentalized mind, I believe it would be worth it to take that as well as extra attack to really develop a fun, combat based Psi character.

One thing I must mention as well is a vague question, do you (or anyone else who wishes to reply to this) think that a character who is worth a total of 200 points would be able to be an effective user of TK Grab/Universal TK, alongside the advantages of Compartmentalized Mind and Extra Attack, with some points going to more fluff based skills and whatnot?

If so, what sort of level of things like TK Grab or Power Talent (TK) should I reasonably hope to achieve for a character worth 200 points?

Last edited by Tolta; 07-21-2016 at 07:11 AM.
Tolta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 07:12 AM   #8
Tolta
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Default Re: [Psionic Powers] First time Psi-user questions

Also, one more thing that comes to mind, if I was to take Compartmentalized Mind to allow me to use two hands, plus, say, Extra Attack to fully utilize them in combat, would I be able to take two Power Defenses, one with each hand, or perhaps even more interesting, would I be able to make one, strong Power Defense using both of the hands of TK Grab?

Perhaps that idea is a bit much, but again, I am quite interested with the idea of a character based around TK Grab, so, anything that would make them somewhat more viable is something I'd like to consider.
Tolta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 09:52 AM   #9
weby
 
weby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Default Re: [Psionic Powers] First time Psi-user questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolta View Post
Ah, thank you for that response! Hmm, looking at some of the potential modifiers for compartmentalized mind, I believe it would be worth it to take that as well as extra attack to really develop a fun, combat based Psi character.

One thing I must mention as well is a vague question, do you (or anyone else who wishes to reply to this) think that a character who is worth a total of 200 points would be able to be an effective user of TK Grab/Universal TK, alongside the advantages of Compartmentalized Mind and Extra Attack, with some points going to more fluff based skills and whatnot?

If so, what sort of level of things like TK Grab or Power Talent (TK) should I reasonably hope to achieve for a character worth 200 points?
A total of 200 points will be bit iffy, as 100 points is not really not enough to build the base character for combat use, you would want at minimum about 150.

Just IQ 14+HT 14+fit+combat reflexes+luck is 155 points, so you would have only 45 points to use, so definitely not enough for enough TK+compartmentalized mind+skills. If it is 200 points+disadvantages, then the points available will make such possible, but see below for note on armors.

Also a problem in most higher TLs is that body armor gets high DRs, so paying character points to penetrate such is usually very expensive (and the TK crush is the only effective TK power if enemies have military type armors). In such setting mind control type and similar powers are definitely more useful.

So if you have the 200 points total I would personally not use TK, at 250 points total it is definitely possible(but without the compartmentalized mind) by using alternate abilities or unified TK, perhaps something like:
TK Crush 10[50] with alternate abilities:
TK Grab 7[10]
TK Bullet 10[10]
Levitation 4[4]
And TK talent 2[10]
For a total of: 145(base)+84(powers)=229, leaving 21 points for other uses like skills(and more TK talent). Note that a lot of IQ based skills will be usable level with just one point, so you can fairly easy also fill another role with those points.

If you have to use 200 points total including disadvantages and want to use TK, then drop fit, lower IQ to 12, drop TK Bullet and buy 2 more TK talent, leaving 16 points for other stuff. Here you will not get any good skills in anything really, so filling other roles is problematic.
__________________
--
weby's gaming stuff: http://weby.roto.nu
weby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 10:01 AM   #10
weby
 
weby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Default Re: [Psionic Powers] First time Psi-user questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolta View Post
Also, one more thing that comes to mind, if I was to take Compartmentalized Mind to allow me to use two hands, plus, say, Extra Attack to fully utilize them in combat, would I be able to take two Power Defenses, one with each hand, or perhaps even more interesting, would I be able to make one, strong Power Defense using both of the hands of TK Grab?

Perhaps that idea is a bit much, but again, I am quite interested with the idea of a character based around TK Grab, so, anything that would make them somewhat more viable is something I'd like to consider.
By powers 167: "No one may use more than one power defense per turn, however." So no.
__________________
--
weby's gaming stuff: http://weby.roto.nu
weby is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
psionic, psionic campaigns, psionic powers, psionics, tk grab

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.