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Old 07-12-2016, 08:57 AM   #1
Lucian
 
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Location: New York
Default Swords and plate

Another post brought up a fact I knew about but have long forgotten.

Swords can't pierce plate armor.

In reality, never on a cutting attack,
Thrusting, with 2 hands you might only pierce
A few centimeters.

In gurps any mook with about 14 15 st
Can many a swing attack and reasonably best
6 DR with a sword. Using basic set numbers here.

Does anyone have house rules that address these issues?
Obviously, this concerns more realistic games.

I was thinking maybe plate has an armor multiplier of 2 vs swords, unless a successful attack is made by targeting chinks
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:01 AM   #2
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Swords and plate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucian View Post
In gurps any mook with about 14 15 st
Can many a swing attack and reasonably best 6 DR with a sword.
Of course, that result doesn't mean the mook just sliced straight through the armor plate. It just meant that he damaged a target wearing armor.

If realistically, you couldn't damage a target wearing armor, it would have been far more popular even that it was historically (expense be damned), and degree of armor would have been the sole deciding factor in all but a few exceptional ancient battles, noted by historians precisely as such odd exceptions. That didn't happen. Therefore, armored people are not de facto invulnerable.

Also kind of odd to assign 15 ST to just any old mook, but that's another question :)
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:11 AM   #3
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: Swords and plate

Edge Protection rules are in the books. Cutting damage is treated as Crushing, unless it deals more than double the armor's DR. And just what kind of game are you running, where mooks have ST15?
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:19 AM   #4
Lucian
 
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Default Re: Swords and plate

On my world the enemies are strong. An orc averages 15 st easily.

Even "a human bandit" is A hard man who makes his living being a professional fighter. They have physical stats that reflect that. 13 to 14 st usually

I really have no mooks, in my game, a mook is a straight up brawler with no skill other than hacking away.

Almost all of my 120+ npcs found in my world are made to be deadly. Combat is meant to be lethal, and my players think twice before engaging
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:52 AM   #5
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Default Re: Swords and plate

Add me to the people who consider the ST a bit on the unrealistic side (at least on average), so armor behaving unrealistically weak in that circumstance is a rather campaign-specific issue, not a generic problem.

I'm using the Knowing Your Own Strength rules to great success. Cuts down on escalating swing damage values (Swing is just Thrust+2), and with the new benchmarks, I can't really justify anything beyond ST 11 or 12 for most foes.
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:00 AM   #6
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: Swords and plate

Armor such as DR 6 plate does a superb job of blunting attacks from more mortal foes

I actually use brawny works and so forth specifically to give them a shot at actually doing damage
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:02 AM   #7
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Default Re: Swords and plate

Indeed, your ST (and probably all of your stats) are high. This isn't 'wrong' as much as it is not calculated to give realistic armor results in gurps.

A simple fix would be multiplying all armor by 1.5 and then using edge protection.
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:03 AM   #8
Lucian
 
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Default Re: Swords and plate

Yea my house rules are unique.

I don't count a reduction in attributes toward the overall disadvantage limit. I theorized and seem to be right, that this would tempt many of my players into hyper focusing on a single area.

In this way, its kind of like getting a traditional dnd class, with out using templates.

It's been pretty successful.

So I've had 150 point characters begin play with 16 st and respectable dx, making a very focused melee bad ass. But not good with much else.

The enemies are designed under similar principles.
It's working very well actually, even though my players are competent fighters in their respective area, the decision to take on a group on bandits even if they are the mooks of my world can result in serious harm, serious damage to property, or death
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:17 AM   #9
Tomsdad
 
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Default Re: Swords and plate

It's a bit of a recurring subject, lots of options that broadly fall into three categories IME:


1). Limit ST (this doesn't sound like it will fit your game)

2). Limit ST based Damage

3). Increase DR vs. ST based damage


Personally I do a mix of 1) & 3).


2). Is a common one (I personally tend not to like it as it effects things other than melee weapons vs armour, namely melee weapons vs. people)


3). Can come in a few versions. Layering or very thick armour, high ST allows you to wear a lot of armour as well as dish out lots of damage.

Just increasing DR in some way (I do this by adjusting different DR's vs. different damage types)


Simply giving hand held weapon an AD(0.5). If you do that though don't treat DR0 as DR1. I'd still have Edge protection on top of that though, even DR2 stiff leather should be extremely hard to cut through.

Last edited by Tomsdad; 07-13-2016 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:38 AM   #10
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: Swords and plate

Well then, you just need to have armor with better than 6 DR available, if you want armor to really do much more than change swords from "you're dead" to "you're going to bleed to death." If you're in a world where ST14 is considered normal, armor can be thicker and heavier, thus having more DR.
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