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Old 07-05-2016, 11:25 AM   #1
Join Date: Jul 2016
Default Surrender boon winning level

I need some help resolving a friendly, yet heated dispute.
I have purchased the official Munchkin Level Counter app and of course I am the only one of my friends that has been willing to buy it, so of course they all hate the advantage that i get from it. But one of the boons in particular causes a lot of argument... The Surrender boon: For every monster in the combat whose Bad Stuff applies to you, you may take that Bad Stuff now and go up a level.The combat is over. No one gets treasure, and your helper gets no rewards at all. Usable once only.

I tend to save this boon for the winning level as a sort of Sneak attack and my friends get absolutely steamed from this. I use it on a monster(s) whose Bad Stuff applies to me and does not include losing levels. My friends will argue with "you cannot get the winning level with that card unless it specifically states that you can", to which I respond "it is legit because I defeated the monster", and of course they respond with "you didn't defeat the monster", at which point i direct them to the official Munchkin FAQ which states under "Important Note #1: Reaching Level 10" "Note also that any level gained as a result of killing a monster counts as the winning level. (If a card says a monster is automatically defeated, this counts as a kill unless the card says otherwise.)" and the official FAQ defines the term "defeat" as "For the purposes of the game, "defeating" a monster involves beating it in combat OR removing it from play in such a way that you do not have to Run Away. This means that if a Wizard casts a Charm Spell or a munchkin uses a Pollymorph Potion, or something else happens that ends a fight without the munchkins having to Run Away, the monster is defeated."
My logic is: If (according to official FAQ) defeat = kill and avoiding running away = defeat, then logically I defeated the monster by surrendering to its Bad Stuff and skipping the Run Away phase.
But i show them the FAQ and they say that my play doesn't even meet that criteria even if I played my card before anyone else played theirs. Then they argue that they should still be able to play their cards on it to stop me, which normally I would agree with but in this case I had already reached level 10 because the card say to take the Bad Stuff NOW and go up a level, it does not say go up a level after all monsters are defeated, and therefore I am at level 10, the game is over and no more cards can be played.
They also argue that "the FAQ doesn't specifically address this card so it cannot apply" to which I respond " it does not need to address this card as it addresses the general terms and definitions in the game".
I even tried to compromise with them and agree to choose a new boon rather than use this card anymore and they refuse. But i feel that if I cannot use it as i understand it then i should be able to reset the app and exchange it for a new boon, or play it as i understand it and to it's fullest potential..

A ruling to either side by a Munchkin official would be very much appreciated.

Thank you in advance

Last edited by VanDorn; 07-05-2016 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 07-05-2016, 11:42 AM   #2
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MunchkinMan's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Macungie, PA
Default Re: Surrender boon winning level

You defeated the Monsters, but you didn't kill them. Here's a section from the FAQ that you seem to have forgotten to mention:

Originally Posted by The FAQ
"Killed" means that you defeated the monster with your Level and bonuses in combat, or used some card or special ability that specifically states that it kills the monster. For this, you get levels and Treasure.
You also didn't kill the Monsters; thematically, you traded Bad Stuff for a Level, and then the Monster left.

Finally, Since the boon doesn't explicitly say it can be used for the Winning Level, you can't use it at all if you're going to get the Winning Level.
Erik D. Zane
Munchkin NetRep --
MiB #1029

Last edited by MunchkinMan; 07-05-2016 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 07-05-2016, 03:52 PM   #3
Join Date: Jul 2016
Default Re: Surrender boon winning level

I don't particularly agree, but I asked for a ruling and I got one. So thank you for taking the time to resolve this for us.
Can't be used for the winning level. I don't like it but moderator said so is a good enough reason for me.

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