Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-22-2006, 08:47 AM   #1
Hobbes
 
Hobbes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Guangzhou, China
Default Cosmetic Question

I have a couple of questions about the Cosmetic limitation for Alternate Form (though it is also applicable to Morph). The exact wording of the limitation is: “You can assume a second distinct appearance with no change in abilities or racial template.”

This initially seems pretty clear, but it runs into some problems when pushed on specific cases. Let’s say I make a human with an alternate form of a satyr. He obviously does not gain the benefits of his horns {Crushing Striker (Cannot Parry -40%, Limited Arc-Straight Ahead -40%) [1]}, hooves {Claws (Hooves) [3]}, or Fur [1] on his lower half. The question gets muddier when you reverse the situation. What happens when you have a satyr who has an alternate form of a human?
  1. Abilities are unchanged, so our satyr can use his horns in his human form, but what happens when he tries to wear a hat? Are the horns there or not? Are they present but not visible, or are can they be used despite not being physically present?
  2. The satyr in human form gets bonuses to kicking damage from hooves, despite having normal human-looking feet. What happens when he tries to wear shoes? Do they work normally because he has feet, or do they fall off because he has hooves?
  3. Our satyr goes to the beach in human form, and goes sunbathing. After lying out he burns on his chest and arms while his legs are still pasty white because they have fur on them in the native form. Does this make any kind of sense?
The problem is that Cosmetic is definitely not described as illusory, but an actual physical change that does not confer abilities. Does it cancel out abilities, if the assumed form is less powerful/able? If there is no change at all, and the assumed form is not illusory, how does this work?

The problem gets even worse with animal forms. Can a human with a cosmetic alternate cat form still manipulate objects with opposable digits? Is a human with a cosmetic bird form automatically earthbound? Most importantly, am I missing something obvious that will make me smack myself on the forehead when it is pointed out to me?
__________________
"No one ever sold newspapers by telling you the truth; life just ain't that bad."
-Warren Ellis
Hobbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2006, 08:54 AM   #2
Ogbendog
 
Ogbendog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sammamish, WA
Default Re: Cosmetic Question

I would say that you change your appearance, but not your race. A human can't have a cosmetic change into a satyr, he can can only change skin and hair color, hair length, maybe gender.

at best, horns might appear but be useless, they might be bundles of hair.

the other way round, the satyr can't loose his hornes. maybe, if the GM is generous, hair grows over them, or they have a pompadour type do, but they are still there
__________________
Kira: What do Klingons dream of?
Worf: Things that would send cold chills down your spine, and wake you in the middle of the night. It is better you do not know.
Ogbendog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2006, 09:30 AM   #3
vitruvian
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Cosmetic Question

Quote:
I would say that you change your appearance, but not your race. A human can't have a cosmetic change into a satyr, he can can only change skin and hair color, hair length, maybe gender.
Interesting limitation, but not Cosmetic.
vitruvian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2006, 09:45 AM   #4
Pomphis
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Default Re: Cosmetic Question

“You can assume a second distinct appearance with no change in abilities or racial template.”

says "no change in ... racial template". So IMO you cannot change your racial template and therefore have to remain a human or satyr. You can change into a different looking member of your race, but that´s it.
Pomphis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2006, 09:55 AM   #5
vitruvian
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Cosmetic Question

No, you can *look* like a member of a different race, your template just doesn't change.
vitruvian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2006, 11:29 AM   #6
Fabricati
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North Hollywood, CA
Default Re: Cosmetic Question

But... Your example- most depictions of satyrs I've seen have different bone structure then humans. That sounds like a racial template change to me, regardless of whether or not the rest is purely cosmetic.

So, yeah, I'd really have to agree with Pomphis- or at the very least, assess some more points to allow a purely cosmetic Satyr form.

Of course, this line starts to get fuzzy when you talk about the Ever-Living Ones...
__________________
The easiest way to destroy a utopia is to introduce it to humanity.
Fabricati is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2006, 11:32 AM   #7
transmetahuman
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Default Re: Cosmetic Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitruvian
No, you can *look* like a member of a different race, your template just doesn't change.
So how does that work, then? Without calling the changes illusory? There are some racial advantages and disadvantages that simply *are* the presence or absence of a visible physical feature - how can you physically look like a cat without having No Fine Manipulators?
transmetahuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2006, 11:54 AM   #8
PK
 
PK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
Default Re: Cosmetic Question

If you change your race, you're changing your racial template. If you can't change your racial template, you can't change your race.

A dragon cannot use AF (Cosmetic) to turn into a human or vice-versa. The racial template (hell, the SM alone) must change in such a case, so the Cosmetic limitation is not appropriate.
__________________
Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ)

MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.

#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more!
{Watch Video} - {Read Transcript}
PK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2006, 12:00 PM   #9
Fabricati
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North Hollywood, CA
Default Re: Cosmetic Question

... About the only counter-example I can think of for that, Rev, is the abovementioned Elf example. They're about the same SM as a human, and except for a few cosmetic features, look a lot like a human, too.

At the same time, the racial templates are very different, and a human that looks like an Elf... Would probably be caught out... With all the nastiness that may imply... Hm.
__________________
The easiest way to destroy a utopia is to introduce it to humanity.
Fabricati is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2006, 12:06 PM   #10
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Cosmetic Question

I believe the official ruling for Cosmetic is still that it is only for disguises. Check Kromm's and Ellie's responses in the Cosmetic Shapeshifting Questions thread. I'd add that Cosmetic doesn't make much sense for AF in light of the official rulings.
Not another shrubbery is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
kromm explanation, powers

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.