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Old 04-04-2016, 02:08 AM   #1
Hellboy
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Default Standard + Threshhold Magery

It seems like an unusually good deal to get Magery 0 in both of these. Standard has the benefit of fast regen (1 energy back per 10 minutes instead of 1 per 3 hours) while Threshhold has the benefit of a nice big pool (30 energy instead of 10) so if you had both, isn't Threshhold Magery 0 for 5 points kind of like getting a bonus FP pool that just regenerates very slowly?

The cost of having to learn spells twice can seem to offset that, but you could just use each kind for a different spell, kind of like having aspected magery where you assign FP to individual spells.
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Old 04-04-2016, 07:37 AM   #2
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Default Re: Standard + Threshhold Magery

Well when you buy a Spell you buy it for either FP or Threshold Magery, so you would have to buy each Spell twice, unless you also take the Variable Energy Access Advantage, which is suggested at being 50 points at average, or as cheap as 20 if such mages are exceedingly common.
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Old 04-04-2016, 10:20 AM   #3
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Standard + Threshhold Magery

I've never actually played in a setting that had both. (Much less all the alternative systems in the book at once.) Usually the choice is part of setting design.

But if you do put them both in, I don't really see a problem. You could argue that most of your second Magery 0 is wasted, since you already have the "detect" sensitivity. Access to an energy pool isn't really much of the cost even with a single kind of magery; it's more a minor UB that says "you can buy spells". You still have to buy the spells for it to be of any use. And unlike standard magic, Threshold energy doesn't double as FP.

You won't qualify for most of the harder spells that have a Magery 1 prereq, so that will limit the choices on the minor side. And I'd disallow use of spells of one type as prereqs for learning spells of the other type. So you'd be better off splitting the spells between colleges (though even then there's a lot of cross-connecting, and you'll probably wind up having to double-purchase some of the prereq spells.)
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Old 04-04-2016, 10:57 AM   #4
Jerander
 
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Default Re: Standard + Threshhold Magery

Buying Magery 0 (Standard Spell Magic) and Magery 0 (Threshold) is a good deal. Even with the overlap of "mage sense" and having to buy spells twice.

Part of the issue is that I'm not sure all types of magic can be plopped into the same setting "as is" without at least thinking about how they interact.

For example, I went with a prerequisite tree that went:

1) Magery 0 gives you access to SSM. It also allows you to purchase:
2) Draw Mana, an ability which allows you to pull mana directly from the surrounding environment. Once you have that, you can buy:
3) Variable Energy Access, which allows a mage to tap directly into the Source of Magic via Threshold Magery.
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Old 04-04-2016, 10:59 AM   #5
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Default Re: Standard + Threshhold Magery

Also note that in settings with Threshold Magery, everyone should have access to their Tally pool. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to use most enchanted items. It's just that mages can use their Tally to cast spells and non-mages cannot.
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Old 04-04-2016, 10:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Standard + Threshhold Magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
unlike standard magic, Threshold energy doesn't double as FP.
If you want to do a comparison we can compare it to a FP energy pool limited for magical use only.

Also worth noting that Threshhold isn't vulnerable to fatigue vamps.

The main problem is the slow regen but we could probably design a FP pool with slow regen right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
You won't qualify for most of the harder spells that have a Magery 1 prereq, so that will limit the choices on the minor side.
That can apply both ways, but it'd be nice to use for Magery-less spells you didn't need as prereqs.
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Old 04-04-2016, 10:32 PM   #7
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Standard + Threshhold Magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
The main problem is the slow regen but we could probably design a FP pool with slow regen right?
Sure.

There are also traits for changing the Tally / Recovery numbers on an individual basis, so you could speed that up instead.

(The base numbers are usually picked by the GM as part of the world-building. If for some reason you wanted the two systems to match, you could pick numbers accordingly. But then, the reason for having two systems is for them to behave differently...)
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Old 04-04-2016, 11:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: Standard + Threshhold Magery

30 with 8 per day (1 per 3 hours) recovery....

Powers 119 gives -60% point-per-day or -20% point-per-hour so I'd have to mix things up to make this work.

To do this I'd need to buy 8 different pools at 1 per day. -10% for 'usable only for spellcasting' (M16) means -70% total.

ER 4 [12] -70% = 3.6 points (4 points rounded)
get 7 of these for 28 points...
ER 2 [8] -70% = 2.4 points (3 points rounded)

So you pay 31 CP for 30 FP where you get back 8 per hour.

Separate regen for a pool seems off to me.

Why would you buy a 2 EP energy pool which gets back 10 per minute when you can buy two 1 EP pools which get back 10 per minute each, effectively giving you 5 per minute?
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Old 04-06-2016, 04:18 AM   #9
Taneli
 
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Default Re: Standard + Threshhold Magery

Can you use more than one pool at one casting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
30 with 8 per day (1 per 3 hours) recovery....

Powers 119 gives -60% point-per-day or -20% point-per-hour so I'd have to mix things up to make this work.

To do this I'd need to buy 8 different pools at 1 per day. -10% for 'usable only for spellcasting' (M16) means -70% total.

ER 4 [12] -70% = 3.6 points (4 points rounded)
get 7 of these for 28 points...
ER 2 [8] -70% = 2.4 points (3 points rounded)

So you pay 31 CP for 30 FP where you get back 8 per hour.

Separate regen for a pool seems off to me.

Why would you buy a 2 EP energy pool which gets back 10 per minute when you can buy two 1 EP pools which get back 10 per minute each, effectively giving you 5 per minute?
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:55 AM   #10
Michael Cule
 
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Default Re: Standard + Threshhold Magery

While I have run campaigns in which both Standard and Threshold Magery were present, I've never allowed the two types of Magery to be present in the same individual at the same time.

To do otherwise seems to be to encourage characters that unbalance the campaign as they are capable of both 'safe'(ish) standard magic and the over the top grand scale stuff you can get from Threshold when they need it.

No, the risk of disaster is what makes Threshold playable the way it is. Don't mix them.
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