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Old 08-27-2017, 02:24 AM   #1
ismenis
 
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Default Is combining Maximum Duration and Reduced Duration abusive?

Pretty much what is written in the thread title. As far as I can tell, it is within RAW to have an advantage with both Maximum Duration and Reduced Duration modifiers, resulting in an ability that could be used for the entirety of the reduced duration before it has to be turned off, and then after having been active for up to the maximum duration (without ever having been turned off for more than 5 minutes) it cannot be activated until 5 minutes have passed.

What troubles me is the seemingly excessive point discount you can get from having both, which seems munchkinny. What do you think?

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Old 08-27-2017, 07:50 AM   #2
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Default Re: Is combining Maximum Duration and Reduced Duration abusive?

I'm unclear on how you're applying the various duration modifications, perhaps a worked example would help? Use a specific trait, specific levels of Reduced Duration, and a specific level of Maximum Duration.

It seems like you think Maximum Duration won't be modifying the duration; if it doesn't, then it's not Maximum Duration, it's just Takes Recharge.
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:12 AM   #3
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Default Re: Is combining Maximum Duration and Reduced Duration abusive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ismenis View Post
Pretty much what is written in the thread title. As far as I can tell, it is within RAW to have an advantage with both Maximum Duration and Reduced Duration modifiers, resulting in an ability that could be used for the entirety of the reduced duration before it has to be turned off, and then after having been active for up to the maximum duration (without ever having been turned off for more than 5 minutes) it cannot be activated until 5 minutes have passed.
Maximum Duration isn't intended to apply to anything that normally has a finite duration - that's what the wording about can be left on indefinitely is supposed to be telling you. So no. If it has a duration you can Reduce in the first place, you shouldn't be allowing it.

Honestly any two Modifiers that affect the same property are iffy, and need to be looked at very closely. Never forget the single most critical rule about Modifiers: that last paragraph on B101 that tells you they all always require GM judgement, particularly in combination.
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Old 08-30-2017, 11:34 PM   #4
ismenis
 
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Default Re: Is combining Maximum Duration and Reduced Duration abusive?

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
Maximum Duration isn't intended to apply to anything that normally has a finite duration - that's what the wording about can be left on indefinitely is supposed to be telling you. So no. If it has a duration you can Reduce in the first place, you shouldn't be allowing it.

Honestly any two Modifiers that affect the same property are iffy, and need to be looked at very closely. Never forget the single most critical rule about Modifiers: that last paragraph on B101 that tells you they all always require GM judgement, particularly in combination.
Sorry for the lack of response.

I guess you pretty much answered my question, especially after reading the relevant sections of the books.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
I'm unclear on how you're applying the various duration modifications, perhaps a worked example would help? Use a specific trait, specific levels of Reduced Duration, and a specific level of Maximum Duration.
Originally it was going to be Insubstantiality with Reduced Duration - 1 second, and Maximum Duration - 1 minute, so the ability cannot stay on for more than 1 second after being activated, and after being activated 60 times without a break of at least 5 minutes in between it would stop working. The more I look at it the more munchkiny it is.
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Old 08-31-2017, 06:57 AM   #5
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Is combining Maximum Duration and Reduced Duration abusive?

I agree with malloyd that Max Duration is priced to suggest that it only applies to abilities that can stay on indefinitely.

But if I were combining the two, I think the interpretation of the combination is off. Max Duration for Insubstantiality would mean that the ability acquires a duration, 1 minute in this case. Reduced Duration 1/60 would shorten that value to one second. So, rather than being able to use the ability 60 times with no more than a one-minute gap, you'd be able to activate it once, for one second, after which it would trigger the 5-minute cooldown. The ability could be active one second out of every 300.
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Old 08-31-2017, 08:57 AM   #6
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Default Re: Is combining Maximum Duration and Reduced Duration abusive?

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Originally Posted by ismenis View Post
Originally it was going to be Insubstantiality with Reduced Duration - 1 second, and Maximum Duration - 1 minute, so the ability cannot stay on for more than 1 second after being activated, and after being activated 60 times without a break of at least 5 minutes in between it would stop working. The more I look at it the more munchkiny it is.
Too me this feels like a -80% limitation (maybe -90% if I was feeling generous). It's definitely worse than Maximum Duration 1 minute alone, but not much worse.

Now if it was 1 second uses with a 5 minute shutdown between them, yeah, go for it.
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