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Old 08-31-2017, 10:36 AM   #1
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Replacing Self-Control rolls with Penalties

In 4e, influence rolls never directly force PC behavior. Instead, they apply a penalty to actions inconsistent with the influence (B359). Would it work to do the same thing for disadvantages -- say, 15- becomes a -1 penalty, 12- becomes a -2 penalty, 9- becomes a -4 penalty, 6- becomes a -8 penalty?
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:18 PM   #2
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: Replacing Self-Control rolls with Penalties

Your numbers look pretty sound, but the trick is deciding which actions are relevant. Here's an example, from a few years ago:

I'm the infiltrator in a team of counter-intelligence agents. I also have Greed with a 12- self-control roll. I've entered the residence of some people who we're suspicious about and I'm searching for anything that might give us a clue as to what they're up to. Quite early on, I find a substantial sum in cash, not well hidden, enough to raise questions.

I can see three courses of action. I could leave it there, since they'll probably check on it when they get back, but report it back to my commander. Second, I could take it, turn part of it in as evidence, and keep the rest. Third, I could take it for myself, and quite likely get away with it.

The first course clearly requires a self-control roll (SCR) under normal rules. The second does, but might be a bit easier since I'm keeping something like three months' pay. The third doesn't, but has its own risks.

If this variant is in use, if I don't take the money, I'm at -2 (for a 12- SCR). What does that penalty apply to? My further searches in that building? Stealth to avoid the suspects when they came back unexpectedly? Where's the boundary?

An inverse of this idea might be more workable, giving a short-term bonus for waiving your self-control roll and just submitting to the disadvantage.
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:43 PM   #3
dcarson
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Default Re: Replacing Self-Control rolls with Penalties

I'd think the penalty applies until the reason is gone. So as long as you are in the house with part of your concentration on "but there is that big pile of money just sitting there" you are at a penalty for being distracted.
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:22 PM   #4
RogerBW
 
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: near London, UK
Default Re: Replacing Self-Control rolls with Penalties

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
An inverse of this idea might be more workable, giving a short-term bonus for waiving your self-control roll and just submitting to the disadvantage.
There's something along these lines in GURPS Action 1 (in the Disadvantage Limit box on p. 20): the player may choose to trigger a disadvantage (and accept a blanket penalty to actions based on its point value) for a particular action scene, and afterwards consider the disadvantage inactive for the rest of the session.
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:31 PM   #5
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Replacing Self-Control rolls with Penalties

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
An inverse of this idea might be more workable, giving a short-term bonus for waiving your self-control roll and just submitting to the disadvantage.
Various games have done this, but it usually means disadvantages should be assigned a value of 0.
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