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Old 02-05-2016, 09:06 AM   #21
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearit View Post
If Costs fatigue were applied to this system, would it apply individually to each alternate ability, or could the composite linked whole be seen as a single ability? I hope that made sense.
The Alternate Ability rule doesn't take modifiers. (Note that it's also not an -80% discount to abilities within. It's one of the special 1/5 cost multipliers, which is a separate step after doing the Enhancement/Limitation math.) There's no RAW way to apply a Limitation to the overall AA.

So for the sake of calculating CP costs, Costs FP goes on each individual ability in the AA. It might well make logical sense to require each ability in the AA to have Costs FP. That logic might extend all the way to a common Power Modifier that includes Costs FP, for that matter. It's also likely to come up with Limitations such as Limited Use, Requires Reload, etc.

If there were a complex ability that had to be built from multiple Advantages with a mandatory Link (+10%), then add Costs FP just once, to the most expensive Advantage. This compound construct is just one ability for purposes of the multiple-active AA.

Normally only switchable Advantages call for the Link, while the always-on sort have a -10% Accessibility ("Only while main ability X is in use"). See the uFAQ entry below.

The optional Link (+20%), where you choose whether or not to activate abilities separately or together, needs separate Costs FP accounting so you know how many FP each ability costs, in case you do use them separately. This more expensive Link is the advantage of doing two things at once, rather than building a single, complicated ability. I'd treat each ability as a separate ability for AA purposes.

A couple of related bits of Kromm wisdom:

Quote:
Originally Posted by uFAQ
I want an ability that costs FP or HP to use, but the ability consists of several Advantages; how do I allocate the FP/HP cost limitation?
For those familiar with the problem, here's a solution from Kromm:
First, do not buy a Link unless the ability really needs it (see below).
Second, chose an Advantage that gets the best discount for FP/HP Cost Limitation. Now, add Accessibility (Only while that main Advantage is active) -10% to all other Advantages in the ability. Unlike switchability (of any sort), Accessibility doesn't require separate Ready manoeuvres to turn on the Advantage, so it just flips on once it is accessible.

Exceptions (Switchable): Static, Mana Damper, and other Advantages with a non-10% Switchable price still need to take the Switchable enhancement to benefit from this build; this makes them have a net cost of 190%. Otherwise, either the Accessibility or the FP/HP/ER cost have a free Switchability included.

Exceptions (Link): links are needed for transient abilities, like Shapeshifting, Attacks (incl. Binding and Afflictions) or other 'special' cases. In fact, Linking them at +10% level actually prevents you from using them unlinked (and thus negates the right to buy the -10% Accessibility).

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...25&postcount=6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
A +10% link is worth points because it lets you do two things at once. It doesn't cause both abilities to break if one does, though. It just means that if both are currently working, you must use both. As a concrete example, with "good" and "bad" considering the state of two advantages relative to the usual rules for one advantage:

Switchable Invisibility and Insubstantiality as alternative abilities: You can only turn on one or the other; you can never have both on (bad). If one is shut down, the other is as well (bad).

Switchable Invisibility and Insubstantiality just sitting there, separately: You must turn on one, and then the other; while you can have both on, it always takes two seconds to get there (bad). If one is shut down, the other is fine.

Switchable Invisibility and Insubstantiality with Link, +10%: You can turn on both in just one second (good). You must switch on one to switch on the other (bad). If one is shut down, the other is fine – switching on both merely switches on the one that's still fine.

Switchable Invisibility and Insubstantiality with Link, +20%: You can turn on either or both in just one second (good). If one is shut down, the other is fine.
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=24
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:09 AM   #22
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

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Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
Keeping with the above concepts, is there a way to charge ongoing FP costs for staying in altered form?

Like "I can only stay Super Saiyen so long" or something.

I remember there was a lot of examples like this but can't really remember particulars, just something where it's exhausting to be in an altered form.
See my post just prior to yours. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellboy
Suddenly remembering 'Monster Girl' from the Invincible series. Or similarly, this one girl Loco in Marchen Awakens Romance...

Is there a way to link either to a transformation or a supernatural ability that the cost of using it is that it de-ages you?

This is a great advantage if you have a lot of other stuff to rely on, but in the case of Monster Girl and Loco began as young adults and were having to regress to being prepubescent/toddler and risking de-aging themselves out of existence in the course of fighting battles. When it comes to that it's sort of like a disadvantage, particularly as stat penalties come up for losing size.

Maybe in that case the ability itself would not be a disadvantage but its use could be monitored and result in advantages (losing age disadvantages if you begin elderly and reach your prime) or disadvantages (gaining youth disadvantages if you begin in prime and become undeveloped) as use accrues.

Both the MG/Loco examples also had compensations for that. MG tried using power armor to fight instead of tranforming, while Loco (albeit this might have been an anime filler only arc, not something from the manga) managed to find a new cursed charm which didn't steal her age to fuel it, I think it had something to do with harnessing animal powers.
I'll be honest, I don't know about age-regression the longer you use powers; usually I've seen powers (usually speedster types) that age you because they've sped up your metabolism and the more you use them the faster you age until you keel over of old age.
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:43 AM   #23
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
Stat the template as such:
Increased Stats:
ST +3 [30]; DX +3 [60]; HT +3 [30].
Total: 120 pts.

Then use that as the basis for the Alternate Form, probably as follows:

Alternate Form (Increased Stats; Difference in Points: 120 pts) (Costs 2 FP/sec, -10%; Reduced Time 5 (instant change), +100%; Psionic, -10%) [135].
Surely it shouldn't cost more to have an ability for a few, fatigue-draining seconds than to have it all the time.
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:45 AM   #24
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

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Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
Keeping with the above concepts, is there a way to charge ongoing FP costs for staying in altered form?
That is the default effect of adding Cost Fatigue to Alternate form. you need a modified version if it only costs fatigue to shift but nothing to maintain.
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:54 AM   #25
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

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Originally Posted by Edges View Post
Surely it shouldn't cost more to have an ability for a few, fatigue-draining seconds than to have it all the time.
Which is exactly why we've been going for alternate abilities rather than alternate form.
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:52 AM   #26
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edges View Post
Surely it shouldn't cost more to have an ability for a few, fatigue-draining seconds than to have it all the time.
If it wasn't for the need to reduce Alternate Form from 10 seconds to shift to instant, it'd be cheaper overall. Without that, I'm calculating a 99 point value to the alternate form.

Now, my first option in my first reply was as follows:

Increased Physical Stats +3 (Costs 2 FP/sec, -10%; Psionic, -10%) [96]

Increased Physical Stats is a (custom) leveled meta-trait with each level consisting of ST +1, DX +1, and HT +1, and then the modifiers being attached to the meta-trait itself. Supers does something similar with the Defense Bonus meta-trait (consisting of Enhanced Parry (all), Enhanced Dodge, and Enhanced Block), to which Gadget modifiers would sometimes be applied to directly rather than each piece individually.
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