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Old 02-02-2016, 04:52 PM   #11
bearit
 
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

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Originally Posted by Kallatari View Post
You would need to add Link +20% to all the abilities, which allows you to use them simultaneously or not, at your discretion.
Hmmm...it actually specifies that Link can't be taken...
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

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Originally Posted by bearit View Post
Hmmm...it actually specifies that Link can't be taken...
I would, however, allow Link to be taken on top of the semi-official rule for activating multiple abilities from an AA set. Link makes no sense with a normal AA with only one ability active.

Link is about activating two abilities at once, in the same maneuver. It turns two abilities into one compound ability.

AAs are about one single ability that can be used in different game-mechanical ways, so using it one way naturally prevents you from using it in another way. (For example, the Ringworld flashlight laser could be a source of illumination, or adjusted to be a cutting tool or weapon, but not both at the same time.)

The multi-AA rule allows you to activate more than one power from your AA set, but not in the same turn (Maneuver). This makes sense only when at least some of them have ongoing effects. There's rarely a need to pay extra to have two Innate Attacks active, for instance. (You'd save the AA switch time, but that's it.)
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:13 PM   #13
bearit
 
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
I would, however, allow Link to be taken on top of the semi-official rule for activating multiple abilities from an AA set. Link makes no sense with a normal AA with only one ability active.

Link is about activating two abilities at once, in the same maneuver. It turns two abilities into one compound ability.

AAs are about one single ability that can be used in different game-mechanical ways, so using it one way naturally prevents you from using it in another way. (For example, the Ringworld flashlight laser could be a source of illumination, or adjusted to be a cutting tool or weapon, but not both at the same time.)

The multi-AA rule allows you to activate more than one power from your AA set, but not in the same turn (Maneuver). This makes sense only when at least some of them have ongoing effects. There's rarely a need to pay extra to have two Innate Attacks active, for instance. (You'd save the AA switch time, but that's it.)
If Costs fatigue were applied to this system, would it apply individually to each alternate ability, or could the composite linked whole be seen as a single ability? I hope that made sense.

The issue is that taking Costs Fatigue on a large advantage saves more Character Points per Fatigue Point penalty, than a smaller advantage

Last edited by bearit; 02-02-2016 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 02-02-2016, 06:31 PM   #14
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
No, that doesn't let you get around using alternate abilities separately. That's about activating two abilities at the same time.
From the Basic Set, p.106:
LINK: You can use two or more advantages simultaneously, as if they were a single ability. For +10%, your abilities are permanently linked into a single power, and must be used together you cannot use them separately. For +20%, you can also use them separately. You must add this enhancement to all the abilities you wish to link.
By that definition, you could add the +20% bonus to each of the Attribute bonuses, and thus be able to use any of them, in any combination, at the same time.

The issue is making them as Alternate Abilities. In that case, you are correct, you can't just use Link to make them work together. You'd have to purchase each of them at full price, and then add Link. That would be my recommendation for making the ability that the original poster requested.
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Old 02-05-2016, 01:54 AM   #15
scc
 
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

The boosted stats probably shouldn't be charged FP per the second, and I think you got the cost wrong, it should be -40% for 2 FP/sec. Furthermore you probably want to use the versions of ST and HT without HP and FP
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Old 02-05-2016, 04:54 AM   #16
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

One way to boost Attribute all together is to make an "Alternate Form" out of the differences. As for Supers support a Custom template alterative to a racial template.
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Old 02-05-2016, 08:28 AM   #17
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

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Originally Posted by bearit View Post
If Costs fatigue were applied to this system, would it apply individually to each alternate ability, or could the composite linked whole be seen as a single ability? I hope that made sense.

The issue is that taking Costs Fatigue on a large advantage saves more Character Points per Fatigue Point penalty, than a smaller advantage
There's no particular rule that says you can't, though many GMs will probably say no. I'd let it go for logical combinations that don't cost too many points, but this package is way over that - any time Costs [whatever] is saving you more character points than an additional point of [whatever] I start to look really hard for exploits, for Costs Fatigue -10% that breakpoint would be on a 30 or more point advantage.
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Old 02-05-2016, 08:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

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Originally Posted by Kallatari View Post
From the Basic Set, p.106:
LINK: You can use two or more advantages simultaneously, as if they were a single ability. For +10%, your abilities are permanently linked into a single power, and must be used together you cannot use them separately. For +20%, you can also use them separately. You must add this enhancement to all the abilities you wish to link.
By that definition, you could add the +20% bonus to each of the Attribute bonuses, and thus be able to use any of them, in any combination, at the same time.

The issue is making them as Alternate Abilities. In that case, you are correct, you can't just use Link to make them work together. You'd have to purchase each of them at full price, and then add Link. That would be my recommendation for making the ability that the original poster requested.
That doesn't fly, because they are both passive advantages. If you needed link to have them on at the same time, you'd need link to have invisibility and use any other ability while you were invisible. Which obviously isn't the case. 'using' a passive ability means turning it off or on.

The core issue is price. You pay full price for the amount of power you can use at once, and 1/5th of the price for everything else. Then you mix and match all the things you've purchased to fit a cost under the full power you paid for.
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:01 AM   #19
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

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Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
Another option may be to make the increases a template for an Alternate Form, and add the modifiers to that, though the default of "10 seconds to change forms" bit may need to be adjusted by enhancements as well.
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Originally Posted by roguebfl View Post
One way to boost Attribute all together is to make an "Alternate Form" out of the differences. As for Supers support a Custom template alterative to a racial template.
Funny how I mentioned that all the way back in my first reply, but no one followed up. :)

Honestly, I find the options being discussed using Link and Alternative Abilities as convoluted and potentially confusing.

IMO, after consideration, the best thing to do may be to use an Alternate Form. For example:

Stat the template as such:
Increased Stats:
ST +3 [30]; DX +3 [60]; HT +3 [30].
Total: 120 pts.

Then use that as the basis for the Alternate Form, probably as follows:

Alternate Form (Increased Stats; Difference in Points: 120 pts) (Costs 2 FP/sec, -10%; Reduced Time 5 (instant change), +100%; Psionic, -10%) [135].

The Reduced Time is needed as switching to an Alternate Form normally takes 10 seconds; each level of Reduced Time divides that by half - level 1 is 5 secs, level 2 is 3 secs (2.5 rounded up), level 3 is 2 secs (1.25 rounded up), and level 4 is 1 sec (0.625 rounded up) - with the caveat that if the time is already dropped to a second the next level makes it instant.

Clear as mud?
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:06 AM   #20
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Default Re: Temporary Attributes as Powers

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Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
Funny how I mentioned that all the way back in my first reply, but no one followed up. :)
Sorry was a bit sleep deprived when I posted and missed your suggestion else I would have worded it as backing your idea 8)
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