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Old 01-31-2016, 07:59 AM   #1
KingStrongbeard
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Default [Basic Set, Powers] Super Jump Slam

I'm building a character for an upcoming game, and it is important to the concept that the character can jump an incredible distance. However, I have a question of how Super Jump functions. I'll spare you the unnessary details of the character and use Super Jump Joe as my example here.

Super Jump Joe has ST/HP 10, and between his Move and Super Jump can leap 100 yards into the air as a high jump. Very impressive.

So, I want to look at three situations. Two of which I have questions on.

Situation 1) Joe jumps straight up and lands back where he started on hard ground.
We know by the wording of the Super Jump advantage (BS 89) that he takes no damage from this fall, as he has not fallen farther than he can jump. Cool.

Situation 2) Joe jumps 100 yards into the air again, but this time, he lands on top of Clueless George. Poor George. The outcome for George is clear to me.

He's got a heavy object falling on his head. Joe has 10 HP, and has fallen 100 yards. According to the velocity on the table in the Basic Set, and the calculation for collision damage, George is looking at 47d6 of crushing damage. He's almost certainly a goner.

But what happens with Super Jump Joe? It is not technically falling damage anymore, it is a collision with another character, in other words, a Slam. Super Jump doesn't clarify what happens. It does say that you can use your jumping move to slam, but doesn't say what happens. Does Joe suffer the collision damage as well? If yes, then that seems strange to me. He can hit the hard ground and be unscathed, but if he hits Clueless George's relatively soft head, he explodes in gore?

This could, I suppose, be a case of "you get what you pay for" and Joe needs to buy 165 levels of Collisions Only DR to neutralize the average damage of his impact in order for the game logic to make any sense, but I'm hoping that isn't the case.

Situation 3) Super Jump Joe makes not a high jump, but a broad jump into George. He hits, and deals his Slam damage to George. Again does he suffer the damage back?

My final question, if the consensus is that Joe can not Slam his foe in any way without taking damage, and assuming he does not have the Damage Resistance to deal with such a blow, is there anything he do to take advantage of his Super Jumping speed to deal damage without killing himself?
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:23 AM   #2
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: [Basic Set, Powers] Super Jump Slam

You failed your Math skill there, buddy. (10x47)/100 = 4.7
Super Jump Joe is only doing 5d6 in this scenario.

As for the scenario itself, no, landing on people does no damage, as Super Jump effectively treats you as not having fallen at all.

For a broad jump, yes, that is a Slam, and you would both be hit for 5d6 Crushing damage.
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:46 AM   #3
Lia Valenth
 
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Default Re: [Basic Set, Powers] Super Jump Slam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
...
As for the scenario itself, no, landing on people does no damage, as Super Jump effectively treats you as not having fallen at all.
No it does not. I do not know what the answers to this are, but Super Jump does not treat you as if you did not fall. Super Jump negates the damage if the fall is "less than or equal to your maximum high jump".

This actually makes me think of another question: if Joe can jump 100 yards, but falls 101 yards and fails his Acrobatics check, does he take the whole 6d from the fall due to 1 yard of distance (if my calculation on the fall damage is correct)?
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:51 AM   #4
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: [Basic Set, Powers] Super Jump Slam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lia Valenth View Post
No it does not. I do not know what the answers to this are, but Super Jump does not treat you as if you did not fall. Super Jump negates the damage if the fall is "less than or equal to your maximum high jump".

This actually makes me think of another question: if Joe can jump 100 yards, but falls 101 yards and fails his Acrobatics check, does he take the whole 6d from the fall due to 1 yard of distance (if my calculation on the fall damage is correct)?
1 yard. You have an effective fall height of (Actual distance - maximum jump), with a minimum of 0. So, effectively, you did not fall for all intents and purposes, as you also cause no damage to the ground or building you land on.
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Old 01-31-2016, 10:28 AM   #5
KingStrongbeard
 
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Default Re: [Basic Set, Powers] Super Jump Slam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
You failed your Math skill there, buddy. (10x47)/100 = 4.7
Ah, so it is. Now I feel stupid, especially since the character I was working with that triggered this question was heavier and falling farther and only doing 15d6, I really should have caught that mistake. I shouldn't try and compose words right after work. But the question, of course, remains in spite of my forgetting that ten is not equal to one hundred.

Quote:
As for the scenario itself, no, landing on people does no damage, as Super Jump effectively treats you as not having fallen at all.
That is certainly not the answer I expected to receive. That doesn't really make sense within the fiction. I am inclined to believe what Lia Valenth said with Super Jump negating the damage from the fall for Joe. If that is not the case in your opinion Nereidalbel, how would you represent a character delivering a crushing stomp from above like this? A limitation on the Super Jump, to make it count as Slam into the ground/target, or would that be an enhancement because it allows you a new form of attack? A linked Innate Attack seems excessive.
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Old 02-01-2016, 01:34 AM   #6
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: [Basic Set, Powers] Super Jump Slam

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingStrongbeard View Post
That is certainly not the answer I expected to receive. That doesn't really make sense within the fiction. I am inclined to believe what Lia Valenth said with Super Jump negating the damage from the fall for Joe. If that is not the case in your opinion Nereidalbel, how would you represent a character delivering a crushing stomp from above like this? A limitation on the Super Jump, to make it count as Slam into the ground/target, or would that be an enhancement because it allows you a new form of attack? A linked Innate Attack seems excessive.
If you're intentionally trying to stomp somebody, I'd call it a Feature that you can opt to not negate your own falling damage, and then suggest you buy a lot of DR vs Crushing.
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Old 02-01-2016, 05:50 AM   #7
GodBeastX
 
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Default Re: [Basic Set, Powers] Super Jump Slam

The wording in the book does not say targets of landing take no damage. Also, consider Catfall, which lowers falling damage and distance. Am I to believe that the momentum of the individual is always negated?

I'm not one to invent "Implicit" rules on advantages. Especially for fictional advantages. As Powers points out, it's unrealistic to have it.

That being said, I'd like to see someone jump 100 yards in the air and land on a 1 yard target. I'd say this is one of those moments when someone is trying to cheese the rules. Basically super jump allows you to jump "at" someone to slam them. If you are jumping upwards to, that is still "Jumping at someone" in my book. I'd just tell the player no.

But if you insist on gaming it out, I would personally require Aerobatics rolls to land on the target, modified by the size/distance table, and how far the target moved from original spot in the time it would take the individual to land. At 100 yards (Assuming target didn't just move because someone is trying to jump on them) it's a -10 to roll. And I'd have it take the time in velocity to land on the target. This is probably 3 seconds in this case.

Jumping up uses the character's boost to break gravity, but coming down is all gravity, so it won't be instant. If you need more detail than that, I'm sure a mathematician can weigh in.

Then of course, after impact, I'd probably require DX or Acrobatics roll not to fall yourself.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:22 AM   #8
Lia Valenth
 
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Default Re: [Basic Set, Powers] Super Jump Slam

Quote:
Originally Posted by GodBeastX View Post
...
That being said, I'd like to see someone jump 100 yards in the air and land on a 1 yard target. I'd say this is one of those moments when someone is trying to cheese the rules. Basically super jump allows you to jump "at" someone to slam them. If you are jumping upwards to, that is still "Jumping at someone" in my book. I'd just tell the player no.

But if you insist on gaming it out, I would personally require Aerobatics rolls to land on the target, modified by the size/distance table, and how far the target moved from original spot in the time it would take the individual to land. At 100 yards (Assuming target didn't just move because someone is trying to jump on them) it's a -10 to roll. And I'd have it take the time in velocity to land on the target. This is probably 3 seconds in this case....
Actually it would take about 4.5 seconds to fall, so lets call is 5 for simplicity. Assuming it takes 1 second to jump up (which makes no sense, but for ease of use and because this power is magical it sorta works) it takes 6 seconds to hit the target.

if the target is stationary: a mounted turret, castle walls, or the like, you can probably hit. If not, your probably not going to hit. I would count it as an attack that targets a hex with a 6 round delay. So round 1 you target a hex, round 6 you hit the hex you aimed for. If there is someone in that hex you can do lots of damage, but in most fights its not going to happen.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:57 AM   #9
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Default Re: [Basic Set, Powers] Super Jump Slam

This might be useful:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
I'd call it a Stamp Kick (Martial Arts, pp. 80-81), which defaults to Brawling-3 or Karate-3. Here, specifically, I'd allow a default to DX-3 or Acrobatics-3 as well. This would certainly be subject to Attack from Above (p. B402): an extra -2 to hit and an extra -2 to the victim's defense. A hit normally does thrust+1, plus skill bonuses. I would replace thrust with the attacker's base falling damage, if higher, before adding the +1 or any bonuses.

As for damage sustained by the attacker, I would use normal falling damage. I absolutely would permit Acrobatics to reduce this without reducing damage to the victim a valid tactic for dissipating the energy of a fall is to deposit it in whatever you land on, after all. And as has been pointed out, there's no special need for symmetry here generally, the attacker is control of the body part used to strike, what it hits, and how force is concentrated. I would, however, look at the "if you miss or your target successfully defends, you fall unless you can make a DX-8 or Acrobatics-4 roll" rule from Flying Jump Kick. I think I would give -4 to any Acrobatics roll the attacker makes to reduce damage if the kick fails to connect for any reason.

I wouldn't absolutely require All-Out Attack (Strong) or a shout of "Banzai!", "Geronimo!", or "Kowabunga!", but it sure seems to fit.
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Old 02-01-2016, 11:00 AM   #10
GodBeastX
 
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Default Re: [Basic Set, Powers] Super Jump Slam

I just assumed since it's a fictional world, maybe someone might have "Anticipated" where the target might move and planned the jump, used hand waving or body forming to coast a bit to the side, and then possibly hit them. Hence the negative to the roll... but looks like I wasn't too insanely off from the top of my head.
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