Thursday is GURPSDay - Melee Academy Topics

DouglasCole · 01-12-2016, 01:33 PM

Remember: Thursday is Melee Academy day!

The topic is disarming.

Any system is welcome, but obviously this is in a GURPS post, so there you go.

I'd suggest hitting things like
* Is there a disarming mechanic in your game of choice?
* How does it work? Is it a practicable tactic?
* What are the reasons to disarm that are valid in the game?
* When is it not a good idea to attempt?
* Are there alternate or house rules that change the above answers?

I intend to do at least D&D5 and GURPS (maybe with and without Technical Grappling). Maybe Fate and/or Night's Black Agents.

But my opinion isn't the only one! So if you write something, let me know and I'll link to it!

There are an infinite number of ways to hit this topic, from a treatise on "why disarms suck" to "this is an analysis of when it's worthwhile" to "here are five videos of real-world disarms from YouTube, and here's how they break down in GURPS."

Have at it, make it cool, and then ping me here or on Gaming Ballistic, and I'll link to you in the roundup.

Christopher R. Rice · 01-12-2016, 02:17 PM

Yeah, I'm going to try to weigh in on this - but a bit on the social side.

Fred Brackin · 01-12-2016, 02:44 PM

To comment briefly.

The last time I may have performed any sort of disarm was in Champions 1e (80 or 81). This was relatively attractive because of the huge amounts of power that could be paced into Accessible Foci

Last tie I had one used on one of my characters was maybe in Pathfinder. My Rogue ended up without his rapier somehow or other. This caused him o draw his light mace (a free action when combined with a Move) and beat the bad guy's brains in.

Last tie I had a character end up without weapons for any reasons was in
Pathfinder when my Barbarian woke up in prison. It didn't save the guards from his Rage.

Mot impressive se of improvised weapons was when we were infiltrating a Drow city using magical disguises. Our Half-Orc challenged a real drow in the eating hall and then killed him the dark elf his eating utensils.

Conclusions and common elements? Disarming may look good when the weapon represents a large part of the target's combat power. There are many systems where this is not the norm.

Even a Gurps character's unarmed damage is never more than 2pts less than a common dagger. With a little investment in Skill it can be the same or even higher.

GodBeastX · 01-12-2016, 02:53 PM

I think my problem with disarms is it's horrendously difficult. It's generally not worth trying.

It's far easier to destroy a hand or a mount than to try to disarm someone. This tends to lend itself to the negative to hit, the negative to disarm then the fact it's a contest of skill after.

The advantage in this is clearly going to be the defender's. Where as if you just strike the hand (Which doesn't have much HP to cripple) you tend to be better off.

Disarm may be realistically presented (I have no idea, I am not a master at combat) but I would probably make some optional rule that allows feints to apply to both the strike to hit for a disarm and the contest of weapon skill during a disarm.

From a cinematic standpoint one of my favorite cinematic disarms was in First Knight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiLP6-fL6mY#t=3m15s

I know it's not realistic, but I feel like you should be able to setup for the disarm with a faint or something.

Kalzazz · 01-12-2016, 02:55 PM

I may well try to ramble incoherently about this, though probably just here or some such since I utterly lack a blog or desire to have one

DouglasCole · 01-12-2016, 02:56 PM

Anyone who wants to write something and have it hosted on my blog on Thursday can do so. Private message me with an email address, I will contact you and we can arrange something.

Joe · 01-12-2016, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

From a cinematic standpoint one of my favorite cinematic disarms was in First Knight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiLP6-fL6mY#t=3m15s

I know it's not realistic, but I feel like you should be able to setup for the disarm with a faint or something.

Awesome scene, Godbeast! I'd forgotten about that one. Thanks for reminding me!

ericthered · 01-12-2016, 08:07 PM

I think one of my favorite disarm moments was in the Indiana Jones mythbusters episode. Having shown that disarming a man with a gun with a whip was possible and reasonable effective, they ask the whip expert if he'd ever use the move. His response? "No! I'd go right for the face!"

HANS · 01-14-2016, 12:56 AM

I have analysed one of the pistol-disarming scenes in The Maltese Falcon -- both the book and Huston's film -- in GURPS terms in Martial Arts: The Maltese Falcon.

My post on Tactical Shooting: Collateral also includes a disarming scene.

Cheers

HANS

cdru · 01-14-2016, 02:51 AM

Last time in GURPS my ST 13 soldier disarmed someone was when Russian Nazi pulled assault rifle while they were talking in bar.It ended with Nazi getting disarmed and everyone shooting each other in bar.

I think that good reasons to disarm are when enemy is at close distance and your character doesn't have any weapon in his hand.

01-12-2016, 01:33 PM	#1
DouglasCole Doctor of *GURPS* Ballistics Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lakeville, MN	Thursday is GURPSDay - Melee Academy Topics Remember: Thursday is Melee Academy day! The topic is disarming. Any system is welcome, but obviously this is in a GURPS post, so there you go. I'd suggest hitting things like * Is there a disarming mechanic in your game of choice? * How does it work? Is it a practicable tactic? * What are the reasons to disarm that are valid in the game? * When is it not a good idea to attempt? * Are there alternate or house rules that change the above answers? I intend to do at least D&D5 and GURPS (maybe with and without Technical Grappling). Maybe Fate and/or Night's Black Agents. But my opinion isn't the only one! So if you write something, let me know and I'll link to it! There are an infinite number of ways to hit this topic, from a treatise on "why disarms suck" to "this is an analysis of when it's worthwhile" to "here are five videos of real-world disarms from YouTube, and here's how they break down in GURPS." Have at it, make it cool, and then ping me here or on Gaming Ballistic, and I'll link to you in the roundup. __________________ My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon

01-12-2016, 02:17 PM	#2
Christopher R. Rice Raven and a Writing Desk Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA	Re: Thursday is GURPSDay - Melee Academy Topics Yeah, I'm going to try to weigh in on this - but a bit on the social side. __________________ My Twitter My w23 Stuff My Blog Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library Become a Patron!

01-12-2016, 02:44 PM	#3
Fred Brackin Join Date: Aug 2007	Re: Thursday is GURPSDay - Melee Academy Topics To comment briefly. The last time I may have performed any sort of disarm was in Champions 1e (80 or 81). This was relatively attractive because of the huge amounts of power that could be paced into Accessible Foci Last tie I had one used on one of my characters was maybe in Pathfinder. My Rogue ended up without his rapier somehow or other. This caused him o draw his light mace (a free action when combined with a Move) and beat the bad guy's brains in. Last tie I had a character end up without weapons for any reasons was in Pathfinder when my Barbarian woke up in prison. It didn't save the guards from his Rage. Mot impressive se of improvised weapons was when we were infiltrating a Drow city using magical disguises. Our Half-Orc challenged a real drow in the eating hall and then killed him the dark elf his eating utensils. Conclusions and common elements? Disarming may look good when the weapon represents a large part of the target's combat power. There are many systems where this is not the norm. Even a Gurps character's unarmed damage is never more than 2pts less than a common dagger. With a little investment in Skill it can be the same or even higher. __________________ Fred Brackin

01-12-2016, 02:53 PM	#4
GodBeastX Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Behind You	Re: Thursday is GURPSDay - Melee Academy Topics I think my problem with disarms is it's horrendously difficult. It's generally not worth trying. It's far easier to destroy a hand or a mount than to try to disarm someone. This tends to lend itself to the negative to hit, the negative to disarm then the fact it's a contest of skill after. The advantage in this is clearly going to be the defender's. Where as if you just strike the hand (Which doesn't have much HP to cripple) you tend to be better off. Disarm may be realistically presented (I have no idea, I am not a master at combat) but I would probably make some optional rule that allows feints to apply to both the strike to hit for a disarm and the contest of weapon skill during a disarm. From a cinematic standpoint one of my favorite cinematic disarms was in First Knight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiLP6-fL6mY#t=3m15s I know it's not realistic, but I feel like you should be able to setup for the disarm with a faint or something. __________________ RPG Jutsu.com - Ninjas Play GURPS

01-12-2016, 02:55 PM	#5
Kalzazz Join Date: Feb 2009	Re: Thursday is GURPSDay - Melee Academy Topics I may well try to ramble incoherently about this, though probably just here or some such since I utterly lack a blog or desire to have one

01-12-2016, 02:56 PM	#6
DouglasCole Doctor of *GURPS* Ballistics Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lakeville, MN	Re: Thursday is GURPSDay - Melee Academy Topics Anyone who wants to write something and have it hosted on my blog on Thursday can do so. Private message me with an email address, I will contact you and we can arrange something. __________________ My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon

01-12-2016, 08:07 PM	#8
ericthered Hero of Democracy Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: far from the ocean	Re: Thursday is GURPSDay - Melee Academy Topics I think one of my favorite disarm moments was in the Indiana Jones mythbusters episode. Having shown that disarming a man with a gun with a whip was possible and reasonable effective, they ask the whip expert if he'd ever use the move. His response? "No! I'd go right for the face!" __________________ Be helpful, not pedantic Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!

01-14-2016, 12:56 AM	#9
HANS Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Berlin, Germany	Re: Thursday is GURPSDay - Melee Academy Topics I have analysed one of the pistol-disarming scenes in The Maltese Falcon -- both the book and Huston's film -- in GURPS terms in Martial Arts: The Maltese Falcon. My post on Tactical Shooting: Collateral also includes a disarming scene. Cheers HANS __________________ I blog at Shooting Dice.

01-14-2016, 02:51 AM	#10
cdru Join Date: Nov 2015	Re: Thursday is GURPSDay - Melee Academy Topics Last time in GURPS my ST 13 soldier disarmed someone was when Russian Nazi pulled assault rifle while they were talking in bar.It ended with Nazi getting disarmed and everyone shooting each other in bar. I think that good reasons to disarm are when enemy is at close distance and your character doesn't have any weapon in his hand.