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Old 01-04-2016, 04:50 PM   #1
Pseudonym
 
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Default Attack Character Points?

What would the value of an ability be that inflicts 1d Character Points of damage to an opponent? I mean, it literally removes 1d character points of advantages/attributes/etc. or adds 1d character points of quirks/disadvantages/etc. Is there an example of such an ability? Would it be an innate attack with several levels of cosmic applied? Would it be its own category of damage type?
I feel like it would be worth about 40ish points a level, just a gut feeling, but I wonder what anyone else thinks? In my case, it would only belong to powerful enemies usually, and I know that specifically means that I can just ignore point costs, but outta curiosity, I'd like to hear what other people think anyways in case it is something a player absolutely must have.

Similarly, what would it cost as an enhancement to leech?

There is probably no real fair value for powers like this, I know, but I like to pontificate on things like this.
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Old 01-04-2016, 04:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

Affliction with Disadvantage/Advantage, and a 300% Cosmic.
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Old 01-04-2016, 05:06 PM   #3
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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Originally Posted by Pseudonym View Post
What would the value of an ability be that inflicts 1d Character Points of damage to an opponent? I mean, it literally removes 1d character points of advantages/attributes/etc. or adds 1d character points of quirks/disadvantages/etc. Is there an example of such an ability? Would it be an innate attack with several levels of cosmic applied? Would it be its own category of damage type?
I feel like it would be worth about 40ish points a level, just a gut feeling, but I wonder what anyone else thinks? In my case, it would only belong to powerful enemies usually, and I know that specifically means that I can just ignore point costs, but outta curiosity, I'd like to hear what other people think anyways in case it is something a player absolutely must have.
First, I'd build this as an affliction - not as an innate attack. Second, probably the fairest price would be to first multiple the disadvantage value by five - so each point you remove is worth about -5 points. I'd then price it as a "Negated Advantage." So each -1 point you inflict on a target is an enhancement worth +50% (1 x 5 x -10%). Let's call it "Life Drain" for now. Use Dice+Adds to turn that into a die amount. Next, add "Extended Duration, Truly permanent, +300%" and a +300% cosmic because honestly - you're a cheatin. I'd probably also add a Malediction. So...

Affliction (Will; Cosmic, Rules-Breaking, +300%; Extended Duration, Truly Permanent, +300%; Life Drain, 1d, +200%; Malediction 2, +150%) [105]

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Similarly, what would it cost as an enhancement to leech?
Like? You remove points from them and you get them? infinite points. Otherwise, explain a bit more please.
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Old 01-04-2016, 05:14 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Like? You remove points from them and you get them? infinite points. Otherwise, explain a bit more please.
Without personal opinion saying infinite points? The RAW would be to Afflict yourself with a Cumulative Cosmic Modular Ability, with a successful Disadvantage Affliction as your Trigger, and a Feature of points gained = points drained.
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Old 01-04-2016, 05:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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Similarly, what would it cost as an enhancement to leech?

There is probably no real fair value for powers like this, I know, but I like to pontificate on things like this.
One possibility if you are willing to limit the theft to various defined powers would be

Nuetralize with cosmic (allowing you to apply your neutralize to any power) 300%, Power Theft (gains the players power stolen) 200%, Extended Duration Permanent 300% for 450 Points. It would only affect one power set at a time and only for one person at a time. To get additional uses the "fairest price" would probably treat each additional person you can hose as an alternate ability for 90 points a person..
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Old 01-04-2016, 08:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

1d6 character points of what? Random traits lost? Does the user have some control? This seems like it's not actually that valuable relative to Affliction (some disadvantage, +whatever%). If you mean without allowing a roll to resist, I call "no fair price," aside from the option for instant-death attacks in Powers of having so many levels of Affliction normal characters will have no chance of resisting.
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Old 01-04-2016, 09:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
Without personal opinion saying infinite points? The RAW would be to Afflict yourself with a Cumulative Cosmic Modular Ability, with a successful Disadvantage Affliction as your Trigger, and a Feature of points gained = points drained.
Meh. That seems like crockery to me. So you have a modular ability pool now..but it's not really modular because you have a pool? Naw, that's too complicated. I suppose if you really wanted to do it it would be morel like...

Affliction (Extended Duration, Permanent, Irreversible, +300%; Malediction 1, +100%; Variable Enhancement (Accessibility, Advantages or Negated Disadvantages only, -30%), +7,000%) [750].

That'd allow you to bestow up to 100 points of advantages or remove up to 100 points of disadvantages. Adding "Self Only" is probably worth maybe -10% or -20%.
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Old 01-05-2016, 05:29 AM   #8
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Like? You remove points from them and you get them? infinite points. Otherwise, explain a bit more please.
Yup, Exactly.

I'm imagining implementing the unfair power seen in some games where enemies can drain levels/stats/abilities/etc.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LevelDrain

Mechanically, I understand that the idea is probably too tedious and not very fun to implement (I take x points from ST and put them over here, let's do a bunch of math in the middle of a fight now to calculate your new basic lift) and subjectively, I personally hate the mechanic beyond description when it does show up in games.

The very specific example I'm thinking of goes so slow that it is very easy to out-maneuver, but in some roguelikes for example, it is not unusual for some enemies to use it like any other normal attack.

In the end, I'd personally stat it out as an attribute penalty with cosmic modifier to make it very difficult to recover because permanently lost stats are anathema to me, but I like knowing that the option exists.

For now though, the one Ghostdancer came up with is probably the closest to the situation I'm imagining:


Affliction (Will; Cosmic, Rules-Breaking, +300%; Extended Duration, Truly Permanent, +300%; Life Drain, 1d, +200%; Malediction 2, +150%) [105]

I need to make it take several seconds, be melee range C, and probably require the player to be immobilized through grappling, but that is trivial. For the leeching effect, the 750 point ability might be used as a linked ability, with a +0% enchantment that caps the advantages added to the number of points drained.
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Old 01-05-2016, 08:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
First, I'd build this as an affliction - not as an innate attack. Second, probably the fairest price would be to first multiple the disadvantage value by five - so each point you remove is worth about -5 points. I'd then price it as a "Negated Advantage." So each -1 point you inflict on a target is an enhancement worth +50% (1 x 5 x -10%).
Quote:
Negated Advantage: The victim loses a specific advantage for one minute per point by which he failed his HT roll. There is no effect if the victim lacks that advantage! This enhancement is worth +1% per point the advantage is worth. If the advantage comes in levels, you must specify the level negated.
Negated Advantage is worth +1% per point the advantage the worth, not +10%.


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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Let's call it "Life Drain" for now. Use Dice+Adds to turn that into a die amount.
Why not just multiply by 3.5?

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
+300% cosmic because honestly - you're a cheatin.
Why is this cheating? Can you back up that assertion?

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Affliction (Will; Cosmic, Rules-Breaking, +300%; Extended Duration, Truly Permanent, +300%; Life Drain, 1d, +200%; Malediction 2, +150%) [105]
Without "Cumulative +400%" repeated attacks won't be cumulative.

Last edited by NineDaysDead; 01-05-2016 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:00 AM   #10
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

Reported as either spam or just incomprehensible. If I'm in error, please pardon me.
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