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Old 11-17-2016, 10:43 AM   #501
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: Mailanka's Musings -- GURPS Content Post

Huh, I wonder a bit about how well a ST 11, ST damage using character can work, but as long as she isn't going up against heavy armor she should do okay (and an assassin facing heavy armor likely went awry somewhere)

Encumbrance definitely is an issue! She doesn't have footwear to use her high heeled heroine perk or a blaster to use her beam weapons skill
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Old 11-17-2016, 12:36 PM   #502
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Huh, I wonder a bit about how well a ST 11, ST damage using character can work, but as long as she isn't going up against heavy armor she should do okay (and an assassin facing heavy armor likely went awry somewhere)

Encumbrance definitely is an issue! She doesn't have footwear to use her high heeled heroine perk or a blaster to use her beam weapons skill
High-heeled Heroine is more about flexibility: M'Elena can still be lethal even when she's in seductive dancer-girl garb. I don't feel the need to work out the total cost of her entire wardrobe. As for her lack of a blaster, the point of the character is to prove the effectiveness of melee combat. We've already got a half dozen posts proving that blasters are effective. I need her to test that vibro weapons aren't a complete waste of our time.

But for an actual character, I think it's good that assassins have the option of using a blaster pistol, thus the template has one, and thus M'Elena has one (which also makes her an accurate test: all assassins will have the capacity to use a blaster, but melee attacks need to be useful enough that an assassin is willing to keep her blaster sheathed)
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Old 11-17-2016, 01:23 PM   #503
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Given she has sunk 44 points into swordplay and 1 into blaster if she doesn't work better with a sword than a blaster something has definitely gone awry (though I think her blaster should be 16 not 14?), also she is to encumbered to add one to inventory

The footwear comment is that she doesn't seem to have any, so she is in great danger from space caltrops or space broken glass etc, high heeled or not (at least unless I misunderstood the term of art bodysuit, which I thought protected all except hands, feet, and head, and she has hand and head armor seperate)
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Old 11-17-2016, 01:33 PM   #504
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Given she has sunk 44 points into swordplay and 1 into blaster if she doesn't work better with a sword than a blaster something has definitely gone awry (though I think her blaster should be 16 not 14?), also she is to encumbered to add one to inventory

The footwear comment is that she doesn't seem to have any, so she is in great danger from space caltrops or space broken glass etc, high heeled or not (at least unless I misunderstood the term of art bodysuit, which I thought protected all except hands, feet, and head, and she has hand and head armor seperate)
No, you're right on both counts. it's just that for my purposes, these weren't really important. The point of these characters are to playtest the specifics of this iteration: Vesper Tane and Rafari represent two different takes on Space Knights ("Can you have 2-3 space knights without it feeling like they're too much the same?"), while Vesper Tane will also be a look at a space knight at different power levels (Is a space knight okay at 300 points? Does he "feel better" at 400 points?). Novina focuses on whether or not a non-combat psion is interesting enough. And M'Elena tests whether an assassin is viable in our ultra-tech setting. Gear isn't just isn't as important an element to test, as I tested that last iteration and I'm comfortable with where it's at, so I just didn't give it as much attention this time.

I say this not as a criticism of your comment, or to "defend myself", but to clarify my intent. You tend to take these characters as characters, but these aren't. They're playtest characters, with enough fluff and such so that they feel like reasonable characters (thus, in a sense, your criticism is a sign that they're reasonable playtest characters: they feel like something a player would actually have, enough that you'd critique the lack of certain bits of gear). If we really wanted to turn them into full characters, they definitely need more attention to their gear.
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Old 11-20-2016, 11:49 PM   #505
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This week it's all playtest all the time. We start with Rafari vs Vesper Tane, a basic battle between space knights. Does it come close to the drama we expect between Jedi?
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Old 11-22-2016, 12:49 AM   #506
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Day 2, playtest 2!

But first, we need to update Vesper Tane. We've seen what he looks like at 300 points, let's see what a space knight might look like at 350 points.

And how does a space knight fare against some pretty standard minions? Let's pit Vesper Tane against some Criminals (and an assassin, for good measure)
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Old 11-22-2016, 08:56 AM   #507
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Well, definitely highlights the weakness of vibro weapons (but also their Strengths, as I'm guessing M'elena wouldn't have gotten into this position with a bright glowing force sword to help her hide)

Had I been M'elena, this would have been time for my favorite goofy move when facing a superior foe 'Attack that Ends the Battle', the All Out Attack that either wins, or let's the enemy win on their next go

So! Determined (+4 to skill) dual weapon attack from behind, M'elena has 19 DWA, so with her skill and Determined she can lay down Deceptive -3 and still crit on a 6!

So even with feverish precognitive parry on Tanes part she has a good shot to land a blow

And then we see the glaring weakness of her vibrosword . . . she will do 10 damage or so. If Tane is wearing the lighter armor (it doesn't specify, but why not) he would stop 4 of that with DR and take 6 cut for 9. Not enough to send him to KO check land! With his +8 ST from his Communion? Its not enough for KO check land naked

A force sword would send him barreling straight to death check land, armor or no, communion or no

However the goons were buying time for reinforcements. So if she can knock him for 12 damage, then he might be in trouble, in risk of either limping along at move 1 do nothings or sprawling unconscious after a failed KO check

Suppose Vesper got unlucky and took a hit to lower him to his KO check range, could his Communion get him out of it? Actually, he could spend Destiny on flesh wounds right?

The lack of damage output seems unhelpful here for poor M'elena
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:06 AM   #508
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Oh wait. Lighting is -2 not -1, so that negates some deceptive

I notice that the various UT contact lenses are NOT part of the Psi Wars gear list

From these example fights I suspect night vision may become a very popular purchase
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:16 AM   #509
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It also highlights the strength of melee etiquette. She got in, and whereas everyone else just hastened their doom by attacking, she landed a hit.

You also let Tane spend some prep time to get big bonuses, playing to his strengths. I suspect an assassin striking from hiding would result in a very different fight.
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Old 11-22-2016, 10:26 AM   #510
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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Well, definitely highlights the weakness of vibro weapons (but also their Strengths, as I'm guessing M'elena wouldn't have gotten into this position with a bright glowing force sword to help her hide)

Had I been M'elena, this would have been time for my favorite goofy move when facing a superior foe 'Attack that Ends the Battle', the All Out Attack that either wins, or let's the enemy win on their next go

So! Determined (+4 to skill) dual weapon attack from behind, M'elena has 19 DWA, so with her skill and Determined she can lay down Deceptive -3 and still crit on a 6!

So even with feverish precognitive parry on Tanes part she has a good shot to land a blow
Realistically, she should have walked. An assassin needs to pick her moments to strike, and when the Legendary Beast is in his Raging Frenzy with +7 to all stats, that's not your ideal time to attack.

But what you describe I actually did the first time around. This was the second draft of the playtest, meant to highlight more of what she could do. She attacks with both her blades (Cross-Blade Execution: It's even a trademark move!) and he parried, which destroyed both of her weapons and then he proceeded to kick her butt. +7 DX = HUGE bonus to parry, even if she attacks from behind (which, per the optional rules, is always allowed for Weapon Masters).

Quote:
And then we see the glaring weakness of her vibrosword . . . she will do 10 damage or so. If Tane is wearing the lighter armor (it doesn't specify, but why not) he would stop 4 of that with DR and take 6 cut for 9. Not enough to send him to KO check land! With his +8 ST from his Communion? Its not enough for KO check land naked

A force sword would send him barreling straight to death check land, armor or no, communion or no
This is a definite concern! Vibro-weapons are close to being as effective as blaster pistols... but blaster pistols can shoot you from across the room! I'm hoping that a vibro-weapon has the advantage of feint and deceptive attack and better ability to parry. Obviously, a melee fight with a guy with a force blade is a losing proposition. The counter point is that the force blade is much more expensive. Is that balanced enough? I don't know.

Quote:
However the goons were buying time for reinforcements. So if she can knock him for 12 damage, then he might be in trouble, in risk of either limping along at move 1 do nothings or sprawling unconscious after a failed KO check

Suppose Vesper got unlucky and took a hit to lower him to his KO check range, could his Communion get him out of it? Actually, he could spend Destiny on flesh wounds right?
I haven't been spending points on flesh wounds because I want to see what things would look like without it. Flesh wounds are something players do as a last ditch effort, weighing character advancement against the possibility of being insta-gibbed, which is not a concern a one-shot playtest character has (give an NPC the option to use flesh wounds and watch players cry foul XD). A good Communion miracle could certainly help, especially if he could get some rapid healing or high pain threshold, though both of these are more typical of Ego Communion than Id Communion.

Quote:
The lack of damage output seems unhelpful here for poor M'elena
I thin it's definitely worth watching, though I also think Vesper outclassed her on several levels. The more I've played with Vesper, the more powerful I've realized TK is and Communion is. If you really want to take a Space Knight, it really helps to be immune to psionic powers on some level. Of course, this is not helped by the fact that his corruption points "don't count." I mean, they count academically, but if you're playing him AS A PLAYER and need to deal with the fallout of all those negatives, you might be more careful with the Id than I've been. He's also 50 points higher than she is, so her defeat isn't necessarily a problem.

That said, I'm worried about the viability of vibro-weapons. It seems from your post that you'd take a force sword over a vibro-blade, and I'm not sure I'd disagree with you. Does this pose a problem? I'm not sure yet.

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Oh wait. Lighting is -2 not -1, so that negates some deceptive

I notice that the various UT contact lenses are NOT part of the Psi Wars gear list

From these example fights I suspect night vision may become a very popular purchase
Depends on how strict you are, but yeah, I've noticed that Imperial Troopers really enjoy their IR visors. Rafari's race also has Night Vision 2, which is handy.

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
It also highlights the strength of melee etiquette. She got in, and whereas everyone else just hastened their doom by attacking, she landed a hit.

You also let Tane spend some prep time to get big bonuses, playing to his strengths. I suspect an assassin striking from hiding would result in a very different fight.
I suspect that the way Tane handled Communion is going to be similar to how must players handle it: Meditate in down time, or shortly before an obvious fight comes up. What's interesting is that Dark Communion has GREAT options for combat, while Ego communion doesn't. This is partly intentional, but I'm not sure that I haven't overdone it.

But yeah, like I said, the real reason M'elena attacked at such an obviously sub-optimal moment was because it was a playtest and she was supposed to. In Thursday's playtest, she's better about this, and you can see what a difference that makes.
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Last edited by Mailanka; 11-22-2016 at 10:40 AM.
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