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Old 12-11-2015, 04:42 PM   #1
Pseudonym
 
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Default I don't understand the basic Inventing Rules

I started a blog to talk about GURPS and started writing examples of inventing. I feel like there is some missing information somewhere where it comes to inventing.
http://pseudoboo.blogspot.com/2015/1...basic-set.html

In this post, I describe three people with a skill of 16, a nominal inventor, an inventor with normal gadgeteer, and an inventor with Quick Gadgeteer inventing a $3,000 automatic lockpick in a Dungeon Fantasy style tech level.

I won't post the whole article here, but I will paste my results of the simulation. 'I'rene is a normal 'I'nventor; 'G'ary is a regular 'G'adgeteer; 'Q'uin is a 'Q'uick Gadgeteer.

Irene required 5 dice rolls to get a 9 or less, so she took 5 days of planning. Gary and Quin both succeeded on their first tries because they didn't have to shoot so high. Quin only took a minute to come up with her idea.
Irene created five failed prototypes before succeeding by rolling number greater than 8. On the 6th time she made it. She had to pay costs for the lab and 6 prototypes. It took her 45 days.
Gary succeeded on his first prototype. He took 7 days because he didn't have the HT to try going any faster. He had to pay the cost of 1 lab and 1 prototype.
Quin found most of her materials from scrounging, and only needed to provide $100 worth of parts besides. It took her 3 hours to assemble the working prototype.

I'd like to know if I understood the rules correctly. I'm kinda confused what the $100 means for Quin. Does she pay someone for parts? But if she needs to pay people for parts, does she need to pay 1% of the cost like Gary? Does $100 mean she needs to scrounge again for $100 worth of parts? Is the first scrounging roll just her inventorying what she needs to scrounge?

I also was a bit confused on the lines about "Gadgeteers can potentially work out of a garage or basement per GM discretion" followed by "Gadgeteers need to pay almost as much money for facilities as a mundane inventor"

I await answers with undying anticipation.
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Old 12-11-2015, 05:35 PM   #2
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Default Re: I don't understand the basic Inventing Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudonym View Post
I'm kinda confused what the $100 means for Quin. Does she pay someone for parts? But if she needs to pay people for parts, does she need to pay 1% of the cost like Gary? Does $100 mean she needs to scrounge again for $100 worth of parts? Is the first scrounging roll just her inventorying what she needs to scrounge?
A successful Scrounging or other applicable skill roll gets you what you need, for free. (MacGyver doesn't buy parts!) There's an extra 1d-1 x $100 of cost. The details of that cost aren't specified, so have fun with it. It could be the cost of that one piece you just didn't have in your lab. Or something consumable that you do have, but will have to replace later (so just pay for it now). Or it could be a bribe for a guard at the rival lab. Or perhaps it's the first payment for some expensive equipment that you intend to return after the caper's done. Assuming, of course, that the item is still in returnable condition...

Quick Gadgeteering isn't realistic. The cost is just abstract. Narrate it as whatever fits the setting and makes for some fun. Or if you're in a hurry, scratch off the $100 and don't worry about where it went.

Quote:
I also was a bit confused on the lines about "Gadgeteers can potentially work out of a garage or basement per GM discretion" followed by "Gadgeteers need to pay almost as much money for facilities as a mundane inventor"
The first almost-quote is part of the paragraph talking about Concept and Prototype rolls, right after "Furthermore, the GM may choose to waive the penalty for questionable equipment.", for which the sentence is justification / fluff text. The penalty is referring to the regular Invention rules for Prototypes on the preceding page where it says "-1 to -10 (GMs discretion) if the inventor must make do with anything less than the most advanced tools and facilities for his TL." That is, should the GM think it fits the setting, cinematic Gadgeteers can ignore this penalty for their Prototype rolls even if they work out of their garage, because that's their schtick.

But that rule doesn't have anything to do with the cost of the facilities, two paragraphs further on, where you find the second quasi-quote. Working out of your basement doesn't give you a cost break. Per this rule, you still need all the advanced tech toys and tools.

You could, of course, give Gadgeteers a cost break on the facilities if you're allowing them to work with questionable equipment. Or (not in RAW; something that just popped into mind) let the player choose; instead of waiving the penalty, say they get a -1 penalty for each 10% of the facilities cost they skimp. Fine-tune a combination of the two ideas by waving a point or two of penalty for the desired garage facilities discount and then let them skimp further if they like.
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Old 12-11-2015, 05:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: I don't understand the basic Inventing Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
A successful Scrounging or other applicable skill roll gets you what you need, for free. (MacGyver doesn't buy parts!) There's an extra 1d-1 x $100 of cost. The details of that cost aren't specified, so have fun with it. It could be the cost of that one piece you just didn't have in your lab. Or something consumable that you do have, but will have to replace later (so just pay for it now). Or it could be a bribe for a guard at the rival lab. Or perhaps it's the first payment for some expensive equipment that you intend to return after the caper's done. Assuming, of course, that the item is still in returnable condition...

Quick Gadgeteering isn't realistic. The cost is just abstract. Narrate it as whatever fits the setting and makes for some fun. Or if you're in a hurry, scratch off the $100 and don't worry about where it went.

The first almost-quote is part of the paragraph talking about Concept and Prototype rolls, right after "Furthermore, the GM may choose to waive the penalty for questionable equipment.", for which the sentence is justification / fluff text. The penalty is referring to the regular Invention rules for Prototypes on the preceding page where it says "-1 to -10 (GMs discretion) if the inventor must make do with anything less than the most advanced tools and facilities for his TL." That is, should the GM think it fits the setting, cinematic Gadgeteers can ignore this penalty for their Prototype rolls even if they work out of their garage, because that's their schtick.

But that rule doesn't have anything to do with the cost of the facilities, two paragraphs further on, where you find the second quasi-quote. Working out of your basement doesn't give you a cost break. Per this rule, you still need all the advanced tech toys and tools.

You could, of course, give Gadgeteers a cost break on the facilities if you're allowing them to work with questionable equipment. Or (not in RAW; something that just popped into mind) let the player choose; instead of waiving the penalty, say they get a -1 penalty for each 10% of the facilities cost they skimp. Fine-tune a combination of the two ideas by waving a point or two of penalty for the desired garage facilities discount and then let them skimp further if they like.

I like that non-raw bit you came up with. I was thinking of something similar. I appreciate the look-over. An inventor character is something I'm pretty interested in, and I like reading crafting and inventing systems and thinking how they could work. I've played a bit with metatronic generators, the low-tech 2 smithing rules, and sorcery's enchantments, but somehow, the vanilla inventing rules seemed too vague to me so I forced myself to play through it, and I guess it only makes sense when you put it all together.
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