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Old 01-18-2016, 12:10 PM   #881
johndallman
 
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Default Re: 50-point Abilities

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Originally Posted by Shrex View Post
My GM tells me Rapid Fire and Emanation are counter exclusive. Emanation Cannot be used with "Ranged or Melee attack modifiers" Rapid fire is marked with a gun and is therefore "ranged"
The normal way of controlling this kind of thing is with the Cosmic (GM Ridicule) modifier.
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Old 01-18-2016, 01:10 PM   #882
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: 50-point Abilities

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Originally Posted by Shrex View Post
My GM tells me Rapid Fire and Emanation are counter exclusive. Emanation Cannot be used with "Ranged or Melee attack modifiers" Rapid fire is marked with a gun and is therefore "ranged"
That build is not legal by RAW. Adding the +50% Cosmic required to make it legal also breaks the 50 point barrier, further disqualifying it from the topic at hand.
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Old 01-19-2016, 04:21 AM   #883
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Default Re: 50-point Abilities

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Originally Posted by PK View Post
This doesn't do what you think it does. Cosmic +300% doesn't eliminate the resistance roll for a Malediction. All it does is bypass DR, which you don't need because you have a Malediction; I'd thus recommend raising this to Malediction 3 with the points you save. Now, you can add "Cosmic, Lingering Effect, +100%" so the target doesn't have a way to stop the cyclic damage once it starts. But your target still gets to resist this with his HT vs your Will to prevent the damage in the first place.

And multiplicative modifiers, as presented in Powers, wouldn't change this. The rule only affects how limitations work, and you don't have any limitations on this ability.
Yes it does. One possible use of Cosmic Irresistable is to bypass DR. But another possible use is to allow no resistance roll. Since Malediction is in use here as well the two compliment each other rather nicely.
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Old 01-19-2016, 04:24 AM   #884
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Default Re: 50-point Abilities

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Originally Posted by Shrex View Post
But another possible use is to allow no resistance roll.
No it is not.
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:04 AM   #885
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Default Re: 50-point Abilities

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Originally Posted by Shrex View Post
Yes it does. One possible use of Cosmic Irresistable is to bypass DR. But another possible use is to allow no resistance roll. Since Malediction is in use here as well the two compliment each other rather nicely.
You are mistaken. Please reread the enhancement and you'll see that nothing about it states that it allows one to bypass resistance rolls. For a detailed discussion of Cosmic -- both this specific enhancement and many others -- see GURPS Power-Ups 4: Enhancements.
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:05 AM   #886
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Default Re: 50-point Abilities

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My GM tells me Rapid Fire and Emanation are counter exclusive. Emanation Cannot be used with "Ranged or Melee attack modifiers" Rapid fire is marked with a gun and is therefore "ranged"
Your GM is correct.
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Old 01-19-2016, 06:16 AM   #887
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Default Re: 50-point Abilities

Of course this build is valid (which has the added benefit of affecting non-living creatures as well):

Impaling Attack 1d-3 (Affects Insubstantial, +20%; Area Effect, 1024 yards, +500%; Cosmic, Irresistible Attack, +300%; Increased 1/2D Range x10, +15%; Rapid Fire, RoF 300, +300%; Selective Area, +20%; Underwater, +20%) [13] + DR 3 (Cosmic, +50%; Impaling Only, -40%) [17]

I toned it down area effect wise since I couldn't be bothered to figure out the exact maximum possible value. No matter what direction that flies off in the area effect will mean it'll still hit your target provided it's within 924 yards of you. The DR protects you from the damage it'll deal, which averages 1pt impaling, so usually 2pts of injury per hit against a living target.

The moral is that it's very easy to break GURPS, just as it's easy to break any logical framework of rules, it's the GM's job to prevent it from happening. Of course it can make life difficult, sometimes the most practical way of making something results in a build that breaks the game a little.

Last edited by Wavefunction; 01-19-2016 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 01-19-2016, 02:54 PM   #888
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Default Re: 50-point Abilities

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Originally Posted by Wavefunction View Post
Of course this build is valid (which has the added benefit of affecting non-living creatures as well):

Impaling Attack 1d-3 (Affects Insubstantial, +20%; Area Effect, 1024 yards, +500%; Cosmic, Irresistible Attack, +300%; Increased 1/2D Range x10, +15%; Rapid Fire, RoF 300, +300%; Selective Area, +20%; Underwater, +20%) [13] + DR 3 (Cosmic, +50%; Impaling Only, -40%) [17]

I toned it down area effect wise since I couldn't be bothered to figure out the exact maximum possible value. No matter what direction that flies off in the area effect will mean it'll still hit your target provided it's within 924 yards of you. The DR protects you from the damage it'll deal, which averages 1pt impaling, so usually 2pts of injury per hit against a living target.

The moral is that it's very easy to break GURPS, just as it's easy to break any logical framework of rules, it's the GM's job to prevent it from happening. Of course it can make life difficult, sometimes the most practical way of making something results in a build that breaks the game a little.
Forgive me, but I always struggled comprehending the original M.U.N.C.H.K.I.N. attack and I'm still struggling with this one.
  • Impaling Attack: The base damage will be 1d-3 and the damage impaling.
  • Affects Insubstantial, +20%: So it can affect insubstantial beings in addition to normal, substantial targets.
  • Area Effect, 1024 yards, +500%: So affecting an area with a radius of 512 hexes if I did the math correctly (first level gives is radius 1, each subsequent level doubles radius).
  • Cosmic, Irresistible Attack, +300%: Bypasses DR
  • Increased 1/2D Range x10, +15%: Is this needed if we turn it into an Area effect? I am guessing "yes" since it is here but I just wanted to be certain. ^^'
  • Rapid Fire, RoF 300, +300%: So you roll to hit with a +8 to hit due to RoF 300, with an additional hit for each multiple of the attack's recoil value (in this case, 1)?
  • Selective Area, +20%: Allows you to select which targets within an area are actually affected.
  • Underwater, +20%: Allows the attack to be used underwater (normally a no-no), though only with 1/10th its usual range. In this case I guess that would mean an area with a radius of 51 hexes?
  • [13] + DR 3 (Cosmic, +50%; Impaling Only, -40%) [17]: Huh?
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Old 01-19-2016, 03:13 PM   #889
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Default Re: 50-point Abilities

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Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
+ DR 3 (Cosmic, +50%; Impaling Only, -40%) [17]: Huh?
The intent seems to be to protect the caster against their own attack. But it seems redundant with Selective Area. Just don't select yourself.

RoF 300 is also a bit of a waste with Area Effect. The main advantage of RoF is in the hit bonus (+8). But you only score at best 20-30 hits, even with IA skill around 30, thanks to the way that rule works. Not a guaranteed kill even on an unarmored human. That along with the reduced area make it a far cry from the original M.U.N.C.H.K.I.N.'s intended universe-slaying effect. (Which is, of course, something you probably don't want to be possible for 50 points.)

Last edited by Anaraxes; 01-19-2016 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 01-19-2016, 03:17 PM   #890
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Default Re: 50-point Abilities

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
The intent seems to be to protect the caster against their own attack. But it seems redundant with Selective Area. Just don't select yourself.

RoF 300 is also a bit of a waste with Area Effect. The main advantage of RoF is in the hit bonus (+8). But you only score at best 20-30 hits, even with IA skill around 30, thanks to the way that rule works. Not a guaranteed kill even on an unarmored human. That along with the reduced area make it a far cry from the original M.U.N.C.H.K.I.N.'s intended universe-slaying effect.
On a failed roll, the hex you intended to exclude also shifts, allowing you to fry yourself. And RoF 300 is still subject to scatter, which will end up with 300 AoE effects covering the same guy no matter what. It's just that some (most) won't be centered on the initial target.
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