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Old 04-28-2015, 08:01 PM   #21
chandley
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: [MH] Would like help with some characters

There is something to be said for the Avenger/Atoner or Soldier Warrior who dumps all his advantage points into Will 20. Not only does that bring Power Blow into combat useful range, it cranks Intimidate, and, well... the advantage of Will 20 vs a whole lot of nasty monster attacks is hard to overstate.

Being "the man with the Iron Will" can be fun when everyone else is curled in the fetal position gibbering...
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:02 PM   #22
Randyman
 
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Default Re: [MH] Would like help with some characters

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Teasing? Hell, I'm practically putting out over here! :)

In fact, if you know the right place to look, you can find me openly blabbing about everything in this -- er, hypothetical product that may or may not be in production/layout at the moment.
Seriously. As upcoming products go, this one has practically delivered the Full Monty already. Only Zombies: Day One gave more in advance, and that only the day before release.

I am, of course, eagerly awaiting "this -- er, hypothetical product that may or may not be in production/layout at the moment."
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:15 PM   #23
Morgan
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Default Re: [MH] Would like help with some characters

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Originally Posted by Randyman View Post
Here's my take:

MH, RAW, is carefully balanced at TL 8 to establish a balance between the Commando and the Warrior in terms of combat effectiveness against foes with Injury Tolerance.
Yeah, that's what I've figured out too.

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Originally Posted by PK View Post
If you're giving the commando high-tech weapons then I recommend helping the warrior by allowing vibroblades one TL earlier. You can compensate by making them "experimental" -- not just double cost, but also with a fraction of the battery life. A superfine vibroblade (SV) weapon does +1d+2(5) cutting and +2(2) impaling damage. A ST 17 warrior swinging a SV broadsword does 4d+10(5) cutting damage per swing. Against living creatures, the commando still has an edge, but they become more evenly matched against the unliving and the warrior has a huge edge against homogenous foes.

Take the mummy as an example: DR 6, HP 25, Homogenous. Assuming the commando is using a storm rifle (9d pi+, RoF 3), each bullet does 32 basic damage, 26 penetrating damage, 8 injury. The warrior's swings each do 24 basic damage, 23 penetrating damage, 34 injury -- better than four bullets. Extra effort (Mighty Blows) bumps that to 28 basic, 27 penetrating, 40 injury.

That's really more of a band-aid, though. Without a doubt, the better guns get, the weaker melee weapons are. That's why if I were to do an ultra-tech port of MH, I would also revamp the monsters to make them less vulnerable to guns. The simplest fix is to add Injury Tolerance (Damage Reduction 3, Limited to Guns) to each monster at TL9 -- I'd probably go /4 or /5 at TL10. It's not even that strange a fix; a significant portion of myth is that these monsters are only vulnerable to certain thing. So it's reasonable to assume that the bullets which slaughter humans so well are strangely ineffective against angels, demons, vampires, etc.
Hmm, actually seeing the numbers like this changes my perception a bit. I've been running a more 'standard' Monster Hunters (Thank you SO much for writing these PK! I'm really looking forward to your next installment in the series too!) campaign for over two years now and we haven't had a character who uses guns in any major way against monsters so it hasn't really come up before. The team is an Outcast Angel, a Werewolf, a Demonspawn, a Witch and a Warrior so the group is either casting a spell or hitting the enemy with something sharp.

Okay, I think I'll try these ideas. I don't know why I didn't think of the vibroblade thing myself

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Okay, reading comprehension failure.

But my question still stands, I just phrased it badly. Why are you choosing a non-standard setting for your MH campaign? I see that there's an article associated with it, and I'm not familiar with it, but I don't need you to justify it to me in any case. You seem to want a TL 9 MH campaign that features both guys with (TL 9) guns and guys with (TL 3) swords. Why? I note with a brief perusal of the article that this is meant to be Black Ops redux, and that melee-focused characters don't really seem to be in there. So why do you want a melee character in there?

This is not a rhetorical question meant to make you realize the errors of your way. But rather, if you articulate this to yourself, you might see what you're trying to get at, and that might give you your solution. If it's because it "looks cool," then you need cinematic solutions. If it's to create tactical diversity, new strategic solution to defeating bad guy, then adjust the monsters to allow that character to take advantage of his unique capabilities. When you can frame the problem well, the solution usually presents itself.
Ah, now I see your point, mate.

The short answer is 'it looks cool'. The long answer is I needed a fifth human character that was different from the others yet had abilities that were not blatantly supernatural and could be explained away as nanotech enhancement or genetic engineering. The Experiment and the Warrior were the only two left and both lend themselves very well to melee combat so I went with that. I know the Experiment can be a braniac too but I felt the team could use another guy who could dish out some hurt rather than another nerd type.

So I think I'll run with a Warrior armed with awesome tricked out weapons and a high Will and see how that turns out.

As for the Sage, I really like the idea of super-genius type abilities. I'm thinking about a kind of Precognition level of predictive ability similar to that shown by Robert Downey Jr's version of Sherlock Holmes. How much of a discount would there be if it could only used when the character is aware of his surroundings and can only 'see' up to a minute or so ahead of time? And if the roll is a critical failure I would lie about what he thinks will happen. Or would this be better modelled by Visualisation (as suggested) with a reduced time enhancement?

I'm always amazed at how friendly and helpful this forum is and I love the fact that the writers of the game get involved with the players and help out where they can. I just hope one day I will have something I can give back.

Thank you all so much for these ideas. I can't put into words how helpful you have all been and please keep the ideas flowing either for me or maybe someone else that has a similar issue.
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:42 PM   #24
Ghostdancer
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Default Re: [MH] Would like help with some characters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyman View Post
MH, RAW, is carefully balanced at TL 8 to establish a balance between the Commando and the Warrior in terms of combat effectiveness against foes with Injury Tolerance/
Quote:
Originally Posted by PK View Post
That's really more of a band-aid, though. Without a doubt, the better guns get, the weaker melee weapons are. That's why if I were to do an ultra-tech port of MH, I would also revamp the monsters to make them less vulnerable to guns. The simplest fix is to add Injury Tolerance (Damage Reduction 3, Limited to Guns) to each monster at TL9 -- I'd probably go /4 or /5 at TL10. It's not even that strange a fix; a significant portion of myth is that these monsters are only vulnerable to certain thing. So it's reasonable to assume that the bullets which slaughter humans so well are strangely ineffective against angels, demons, vampires, etc.
Yeah, Monster Hunters at different TLs require a bit of rejiggering. I've got an article that's still in its early phases that will take care of this. It's kind of like my Pulp Hunters article, but dealing more on the impact of TL0 through TL12 tech on the Monster Hunters setting.
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:49 PM   #25
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Default Re: [MH] Would like help with some characters

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Originally Posted by Morgan View Post
As for the Sage, I really like the idea of super-genius type abilities. I'm thinking about a kind of Precognition level of predictive ability similar to that shown by Robert Downey Jr's version of Sherlock Holmes. How much of a discount would there be if it could only used when the character is aware of his surroundings and can only 'see' up to a minute or so ahead of time?
Like in Next with Nick Cage? I actually think that'd probably be worth a lot more than vanilla Precognition, which is supposed to be vague and unpredictable, and you can't control it without enhancements.

I don't believe it's intended to be used in that manner, that'd give major benefits in combat.

That does sound like Visualization though, but you'd need Reduced Time for that.
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Old 04-28-2015, 10:14 PM   #26
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Default Re: [MH] Would like help with some characters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan View Post
As for the Sage, I really like the idea of super-genius type abilities. I'm thinking about a kind of Precognition level of predictive ability similar to that shown by Robert Downey Jr's version of Sherlock Holmes. How much of a discount would there be if it could only used when the character is aware of his surroundings and can only 'see' up to a minute or so ahead of time? And if the roll is a critical failure I would lie about what he thinks will happen. Or would this be better modelled by Visualisation (as suggested) with a reduced time enhancement?
I tried to write a super-power once around this power (and the more general concept of awesomeness by analysis, particularly the ability to identify and target points of weakness). It might be useful to you; it looked something like this:


Quote:
Enhanced Block (1) (Super) [5]
Enhanced Dodge (1) (Super) [14]
Enhanced Parry (all parries) (1) (Super) [9]
Enhanced Time Sense (Super) [41]
Extra IQ (6) (Affects displayed IQ score; Super) [108]
Imbue (3) (Based On IQ; Super) [36]
Trained By A Master (Super) [27]
Visualization (Reduced Time (+7); Super) [23]

Perks [1]
Attribute Substitution (Push based on IQ) [1]

Skills [48]
Bank Shot! (IQ-Based, +0) IQ/WC - IQ-3 13 [3]
Breaking Blow IQ/H - IQ-1 15 [2]
Crippling Blow! (IQ-Based, +0) IQ/WC - IQ-3 13 [3]
Mind Block Will/A - Will-1 15 [1]
Penetrating Strike! (IQ-Based, +0) IQ/WC - IQ-1 15 [12]
Pressure Points (Human) IQ/H - IQ+0 16 [4]
Pressure Secrets (Human) IQ/VH - IQ+0 16 [8]
Push IQ/H - IQ+0 16 [4]
Sensitivity Per/VH - Per+0 16 [8]
Supreme Control! (IQ-Based, +0) IQ/WC - IQ-3 13 [3]
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:04 AM   #27
Randyman
 
Join Date: May 2009
Default Re: [MH] Would like help with some characters

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Yeah, Monster Hunters at different TLs require a bit of rejiggering. I've got an article that's still in its early phases that will take care of this. It's kind of like my Pulp Hunters article, but dealing more on the impact of TL0 through TL12 tech on the Monster Hunters setting.
OO! OO! OO! Yum!!!!
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Old 04-29-2015, 08:54 AM   #28
Žorkell
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Default Re: [MH] Would like help with some characters

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Dagur Icelandic Adventurer
No patronymic?
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Old 04-29-2015, 10:50 AM   #29
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: [MH] Would like help with some characters

I'd give some critters injury tolerance vs non muscle powered attacks and vulnerability to muscle powered

So your vibrosword is great for cracking armored humans, but against some baddies you want an old skool pure muscle powered weapon
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Old 04-29-2015, 08:00 PM   #30
DAT
 
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Default Re: [MH] Would like help with some characters

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No patronymic?
Huh, the earlier draft had "Magnusson", but it didn't make it to the final that I copied.
-Dan
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