03-01-2015, 10:36 AM | #21 | |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
|
Re: GURPS: Adapting the Duel of Wits
Quote:
I like the Reaction roll mechancinc and ven the QC mechanic for many things. But if I were playing or running a Social game (Mind Control is another) where I would prefer a more give and take method like TG has. For social I have several ideas I would suggest in a playtest or private to someone wanting to write it. I don't think I could do it justice writing it myself though.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries |
|
03-01-2015, 10:52 AM | #22 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
|
Re: GURPS: Adapting the Duel of Wits
Quote:
But if you're actually trying to defeat a foe by force, cultural conventions of this sort play a much smaller role. If you were trying to incapacitate someone who'd threatened the life of your children, let's say, and you were able to get him in a choke hold, I doubt you'd be thinking about whether that was a legal move! (This shouldn't be exaggerated; there are wars where certain weapons are avoided because neither side wants to be the target for the other side using them—poison gas, for example. There's a conventional aspect in that. But the conventional aspect is much less.)
__________________
Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
|
03-01-2015, 11:00 AM | #23 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
|
Re: GURPS: Adapting the Duel of Wits
Quote:
My working approach to mechanics, I should say, is to ask the player, "What are you doing?" or "What are you trying to accomplish?" and then look for a mechanic that fits their description. I don't usually give them a list of mechanical options and ask them to focus on that; that moves the game too far away from narrative for me. It rather makes me think of Hero Wars, which had a single mechanic for resolving everything and called for the players to first play out the abstract contest, determine who had won, and then go back and make up a narrative to fit. What I'd prefer, as far as possible, is to first do the narrative, figure out where to apply game mechanics for success or failure, victory or defeat, within the narrative, and thus have "who won" emerge from the storytelling (which emerges from the world description, but that's a different discussion). I certainly won't say that other people shouldn't engage in abstract social combat if that entertains them. But to me it sounds about as exciting as eating unseasoned cheap tofu.
__________________
Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
|
03-01-2015, 11:12 AM | #24 |
Join Date: Feb 2009
|
Re: GURPS: Adapting the Duel of Wits
I think of key importance is to help the player guide what they are doing to what they want to be doing
I want X, and I will use Y, and thus I do Z Not I do Z, to achieve X, using Y The skill Y is on the character sheet and is the first thing needing to be figured out, since depending whether or not Y supports Z may need to choose a new Z or even a new X to match with your chosen Y when possible Otherwise we may end up with social skill equivalent of 'I move into close combat and stab him with my crossbow' |
03-01-2015, 11:26 AM | #25 | |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
|
Re: GURPS: Adapting the Duel of Wits
Quote:
Most combat maneuvers are descriptive after all. You may not be familiar with the TG mechanic or where some of us think its a good candidate for extended contests. Socially I would have an attribute such as Will vs. Will. I engage in a contest by declaring what I want to do, the GM or I decide the most applicable skill and possibly complimentary skills. Also I may apply techniques such as irony, or argument by logic, emotion or ethics (using the Plato method). I wear down my opponent with the strength of my arguments and as I do his become less and less effective until he concedes. Certain advantages and disadvantages may affect the results of each of my rolls, stubbornness or broadminded for example. If going against a disadvantage with a control roll my lowering of effective Will may require additional checks against the Control Number. Say trying to vamp a lecherous person for example or convince someone with honesty that this IS the honest and right thing to do. I see this as a decent Pyramid article and possibly a small supplement. The supplement would not only go over more Techniques and styles but could do a better job on modifications from mental advantages and disadvantages as well as provide more examples.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries |
|
03-01-2015, 11:58 AM | #26 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
|
Re: GURPS: Adapting the Duel of Wits
Quote:
Likewise, there's a huge range of argument scenarios, from formal debate at schools, internet discussions like this one, political arguments where bring your own set of facts to the table, or distorting others' arguments is perfectly valid, or at least common. Having some sort of victory point mechanic for intellectual pursuits enables those less skilled in actual rhetoric or debate (or arguments over the finer points of fictional skills like hyperdimensional space travel or the philosophy of necromantic magic) to participate fully and show incremental progress in the same way that a hit point or incremental damage mechanic allows it for physical combat. Or heck, one could adapt such to a footrace, and I've already adapted it to a contest of strength: the tug of war. Personally, I'll go on record as noting that yes, it could be done, it will have some benefits relative to other methods, but those benefits will be more than offset by adjustments to Quick and Regular Contest Mechanics. But I think that there's utility there in a point-accounting method that can't be dismissed out of hand generally, though obviously specific preferences rule the day in specific games for specific tastes.
__________________
My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon |
|
03-02-2015, 04:01 AM | #27 | |
Join Date: Oct 2012
|
Re: GURPS: Adapting the Duel of Wits
I'm thrilled that there's been so much discussion about this! Reading through this, it seems pretty clear that there's a genuine interest for some sort of system to tactically approach social interaction.
Quote:
|
|
03-02-2015, 04:23 AM | #28 | |
Join Date: Oct 2012
|
Re: GURPS: Adapting the Duel of Wits
Quote:
That's not to say you're wrong to think that, and such a mechanic might even be against the overall 'philosophy' of GURPS; I haven't been playing all that long and I'm still getting a handle on the system. |
|
03-02-2015, 04:37 AM | #29 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
|
Re: GURPS: Adapting the Duel of Wits
Some thought:
It is somewhat inconvenient to support a variety of approaches to influence in GURPS because GURPS' attributes are rather close. I.e. you have most Influence skills are IQ-based, Will is IQ-derived, and the occasionally-used Per is also IQ-derived. Characters tend to have those Attributes no more than two, and very rarely up to 4 levels apart. Charisma is not an Attribute and there's no such thing as a Manipulation Attribute in GURPS. So you can't do stuff like pitting one's Charisma vs. the target's Will, Manipulation vs. Perception, Wits vs. Intelligence etc. when picking different approaches. This means that the abstract number-crunching will indeed be largely an abstraction that does not add descriptive qualities to the social exchange. |
Tags |
house rules |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|