Reddit: why do people seem to not like GURPS?

[JMD]

I thought people might want to jump into this thread I started on why people don't seem to like GURPS. Everytime I bring up GURPS on r/rpg I end up swimming through a vast ocean of negativity and hate.

Help me explain to them why GURPS is awesome!

[Gold & Appel Inc]

I tried reading through that thread, but it just depressed me. Give up and move to Denver; our GURPS scene is the best I know of anywhere and we've had about 5% of the snow that you have so far this year.

[Nymdok]

I read the thread and didnt find it to be depressing at all.

It does highlight a few marketing issues though.

The idea that the system is 'broken' because its cheaper to buy up stats than skills. One guy even mentions 1/2 points (which must be a 3e thing). Although this can be true for uber generalists, the default penalties for skills that have defaults make this largely untrue.

There were some complaints about supers. I havent run a supers game, so I cant speak to those, but those on here seem to like it just fine which indicates to me that its just not their cuppa. Its hard ot sell to people who simply dont want your stuff.

There were other people that said that other systems were more tailored to specific genres and adventure types. Others still said they LIKE learning a new system for each Genre. Put simply, we just aint them people, and by extension, this sytem aint for them. We're here because we like having one system to rule them all.

There are a lot of complaints about Settings. Apparently, Banestorm, Vorkosigan, Transhuman space, Infintie Worlds etc just dont appeal to them and they are looking for something a little more familiar(?). Sadly, I dont even know if they really understand what they want, nor do they understand that a do it yourself fantasy world isn't really that hard to put together, even less so if you're doing DF.

The complaint that SJGames is 90% Munchkin appears to imply that GURPS isnt getting enough support. Looking at the existing library, I just dont think thats true. There already exists for GURPS an EXTENSIVE amount of support and thats before we even begin to discuss Pyramid.

Geeze the guys with the Math complaint. GURPS is just not this complicated. Have they even seen 4th edition? Played it?

Honestly, these are the same complaints Ive been seeing about GURPS forever. Its an education thing. The MIBs go to the conventions. These forums are here. Im sure there is other marketing done. Its just an issue of evangelizing.

I do think its neat you taking the time to educate them and at least getting the dialog going over there on Reddit. Hopefully you'll win some converts :)

Nymdok
I asked really nice
Yeah I said pretty please
I bent all their ears
Now Ill work on their knees!
-Lord Torquemada History of the World Part 1

[Kalzazz]

I think the biggest problem is there might not be anything 'this is super awesome, do this, it is GURPS!' that really stands out as 'the really awesome thing to do, do this!'

To many DMs just have people go play 'hey, your normal humans, elves, dwarves whatnot with swords and spells and such' and people are like 'and this is better how than the twenty different systems I already know and have books for and handle normal humans with swords perfectly well thank you?'

Any system under the sun can handle 'heres a human, he has a sword'

[Propjock]

I play other stuff besides GURPS. However, after some time I always find myself realizing the reverse of "dedicated system does this setting best" and think "GURPS can do this better".

In looking at the posts here and knowing my own preferences, I think GURPS is favoured by people who want to do games that mess with history and have a strong DIY inclination. It really is the SDK of RPGs. That's not for everyone (just as not everyone is a programmer).

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by Nymdok

Geeze the guys with the Math complaint. GURPS is just not this complicated. Have they even seen 4th edition? Played it?

Slam rules, falling rules, and throwing rules (aside from the thrown weapon table) all stand out to me as more math than I care to look up in a single game.

[Kalzazz]

I am a Programmer

I am certainly not wanting to do Programming to play an RPG

GURPS vastly simplifies things as a DM

1. GURPS can stat anything, its just a matter of points
2. NPCs need not points
thus 3
3. NPCs need not stats, because yes, whatever they are, they are valid in GURPS

I dont need to stat out and build the encounter I'm going to run in order to figure out its CR value to give PCs experience, nothing needs to be statted, everything can be done off the cuff

Since I don't need to worry about statting stuff, I don't even need to worry about stats until I need them, so I don't run the overhead of thinking about stats I will never need! Until the PCs actually throw down with the orks I don't care or know what their init or ST or skill or whatnot is, unless the party investigates it or such

[scc]

GURPS 4E isn't getting as much support as it used to, or at least as much as was originally planed, this is from my copy of Characters, page 6: "• Regular support will continue. We plan to release one high-quality hardcover sourcebook every month . . . indefinitely. As I write this in April of 2004, we’re already scheduled more than three years out."

Of course the conditions that lead to the writing of that statement have likely changed

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by JMD

I thought people might want to jump into this thread I started on why people don't seem to like GURPS. Everytime I bring up GURPS on r/rpg I end up swimming through a vast ocean of negativity and hate.

Help me explain to them why GURPS is awesome!

Whenever something requires a considerable investment, people want to find reasons not to do it. Dieting, working out, going back to school, people always find an excuse, and often are quick to blame the thing itself. Dieting cannot possibly involve good-tasting food. Exercise cannot possibly be fun. Going back to school cannot possibly result in employment, and anyway, it's just all a bureaucratic scam.

GURPS requires investment. It's outside of many people's comfort zones. The complaints thrown at GURPS are either untrue, or haven't been true in literally over a decade (1/2 points were from 3e). GURPS doesn't require advanced math, but you include a square root in GURPS Vehicles once, and suddenly everyone who doesn't want to learn it can throw up their hands and say the game demands calculus. GURPS certainly has settings, a bevy of them, that are totally awesome: Imagine Reign of Steel crossed with GURPS Action. What about Banestorm played with Supers? Discworld, THS, GURPS Cabal, GURPS Voodoo. But no, GURPS has no cool settings.

If a man wants to beat a dog, he will always find a stick.

I say this not just as a GURPS fan, but as the kind of guy who runs around trying great new systems all the time. People find reasons to not play Nobilis too, or Fate, or Marvel Heroic, or Indie games in general, or even D&D ("It's just a computer game, you can't possibly have a good story in D&D"). I'm not saying that no complaint ever leveled at a game is ever true. Rifts, Scion, 7th Sea, all have seriously huge problems. And GURPS does genuinely have a steep learning curve and is very detail oriented, which is not for everyone. But my experience is that most people who criticize GURPS don't really understand it, and don't want to understand it.

But it doesn't matter. It's not a popularity contest. Just keep running good games, and the quality will shine through. I have people over here who swear up and down that GURPS is the devil, but then fall silent when people talk about my games and when I run a new GURPS game, they'll agree that, "for me," they'll set aside their hatred. As a favor, you know.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by scc

GURPS 4E isn't getting as much support as it used to, or at least as much as was originally planed, this is from my copy of Characters, page 6: "• Regular support will continue. We plan to release one high-quality hardcover sourcebook every month . . . indefinitely. As I write this in April of 2004, we’re already scheduled more than three years out."

Of course the conditions that lead to the writing of that statement have likely changed

To be frank, I think GURPS is one of the best supported RPGs on the market. I can't think of any game with more supplements, except possibly a few editions of D&D or D&D-likes, and given GURPS's longer lifespan, it may well have more books by now. I sometimes hear "But those are PDF so they don't count," but that's dying off as PDF becomes the standard more and more.