[Poll] Why did you take Savoir-Faire?

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

This is a tangent that I consider worthy of a separate discussion. At first, I saw Savoire-Faire as strictly a skill governing knowledge of etiquette (also mirroring Sindri's "I wanted to not embarrass myself at court"). I was corrected by Kromm and whswhs, who pointed that it's not necessarily/merely the skill of following by-the-book social rules, but also the ability to be socially graceful in the affected subculture, which is a pretty broad and big function:
'Savoir-Faire can be used in place of any reaction roll toward a member of the appropriate subculture' (SE30), 'You may also substitute an Influence roll against Savoir-Faire for any reaction roll required in a social situation involving that subculture' (B218).

Then, there are also additional uses like finding illegal stuff in the High Society, checking's someone's Rank in the Mafia, spotting impostors in a given subculture, making Complimentary Skill Rolls etc.

And there are many subcultures available for Savoir-Faire. Aside from the ones in Basic Set, I've found at least the following: (Spirits), (Rome), (Ludus), (Swagmen), (Gym), (Insert_Magical_Society_Name_Here), (Mystical World), (Merchant). I'm pointing this out to make sure we don't get hung up on just one speciality.

So, the question is, of the times you took Savoir-Faire, which of the functions of the skill did you see as the primary/most important:

• 'Not embarrassing oneself in [subculture]', i.e. knowing the big no-no's.
• Influencing members of [subculture].
• Assorted other uses.

I'd appreciate if you also commented in addition to voting.

[edit]
To everyone pointing to the Needs For The Concept:
slightly rephrased, the question remains the same: which of the following abilities of Savoir-Faire are needed for the concept you had/have in mind?
[/edit]

Thanks in advance!

[Icelander]

The PCs in my fantasy/medievalish campaigns often use Dabbler to pick up various 'refined' skills level by level as their characters turn wealth and success at violence into social position. This explicitly includes Savoir-Faire (High Society) as the most vital skill. At first, making checks at a bonus merely prevents embarrasment at fancy events, but once the skill is actually possesed at a decent level, using it as an Influence skill (or as a cap on other Influence skills under certain conditions or as a Complementary skill for them) grew more popular.

Characters often take forms of Savoir-Faire to model background plausibly, with a former soldier having (Military), former diplomat having (High Society) and a martial arts instructor having (Dojo). The first two were useful, in ways indicated above, but I'll admit that (Dojo) didn't see much adventuring use.

[PseudoFenton]

Mostly the third, a little of the first, and although I'm sure the second played a heavy role in picking it up - its actually seen very little application in game (due to better alternative influence skills, although I generally allow it to act as a supporting skill and use it when rolling in secret for "first impressions"). So basically, all three aspects.

The 'not messing up' part might as well be a perk the way my group plays, if you don't have the skill, you're assumed to be a liability by those who do - and as such are kept away from situations where you might drop spanners in the works.

The main active use I see it being applied towards is judging others from those social groups. The players have no idea who is important and how others are meant to act within their domain - and this skill allows those who have it to assess just that. It's useful to know if someone is being impolite because they're a jerk, or because you just don't understand the social expectations. Spotting a snub, or someone actively undermining your credibility is very useful. Understanding the posturing between other individuals to understand who is being forceful, submissive, supportive (through personal intent or through mandated etiquette) goes a long way when you wish to influence others and understand what the situation is and who to appeal to/force out/etc.

Even if you have Fast-Talk or Diplomacy in the high 20's (so can normally smooth out poor presentation of ones-self and influence a group naturally), you can't expect to discover all this other stuff through any other skill, and therefore still need it. As such, I'd say that plays a fairly large role in the reason for obtaining it for my players - well, the ones who do take it. There are still a few who think that a Big Stick and Intimidate are the way to go, with falling back on the old-faithful "burn the place to the ground" plan if things do (inevitably) go sideways.

[aesir23]

For me it's always been, "Because my character would have it," not because I ever expected to get any use out of it.

[ArchonShiva]

This is a mostly a GM answer, because that's where most of my experience has been.

It's been mostly used as "Perk: Can conduct themselves in high society" (or whatever). I don't think I ever had it rolled unpenalized when someone started with it from their background. It'll be used to default from when dealing with different cultures, or if faking a higher status, and if the barbarian drops a single point into it mid-campaign, I might have them roll a few times at first.

It's also used as a bit of an Expert Skill, though - sometimes I need a roll, look down the character sheet, and say "oh, roll Savoir-Faire" because nothing better sticks out - it could stand in for Acting, figuring out where a room should be, or deducing precedence at a party - or who is blackmailing whom.

I don't use it as an influence roll per se, but that's because I don't exactly use Reaction Rolls either - I simply adjust NPCs' behaviour for Reaction Modifiers.

As a player, the characters I played with Savoir-Faire had the entire set of social skills to complement it, so it never got used except as a single point for "see, I have Savoir-Faire 14, don't bug me with that stuff".

In the sense that you point out, I think it's most interesting for Savoir-Faire(Servant) to influence their masters in subtle ways.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by aesir23

For me it's always been, "Because my character would have it," not because I ever expected to get any use out of it.

Same here: the character concept calls for it. Though I did expect the character to use it. Usually its a good social skill for a character who is specialized at something other than talking, and only needs to communicate in one context.

[mehrkat]

I don't use Savoir-Faire in game except as a way to know on a very surface level about a culture and how to be comfortable there.

I'm mostly of the "because the character would have it". though I don't think I've ever seen it with more than a point.

As a GM I also limit the use of other skills in unfamiliar cultural groups sometimes and if you have Savoir-Faire for that group you don't suffer the limit.

[Imion]

If the character concept calls for it, then the character has to have it. Simple as that.

Think of Savoire-Faire as a kind of societal Area Knowledge. It's only natural to aquire it by being a member of said society.

[WingedKagouti]

Add me to the list of "if it fits the character concept".

Someone who has been with the military for a long time would have SF(Military). The mercenary who got dishonorably discharged might not (though it is still a believable skill), it could even be part of the reason (s)he got kicked out. The police is a similar situation.

A disciple who has attended a dojo and started advanced training should have SF(Dojo), simply due to constant exposure during training. The self taught martial artist who is good enough to have TbaM, without having actually trained with a master, likely relies on a default when (s)he goes to challenge a local master.

You can find plenty of examples for each type of Savoir-Faire where someone would logically have it and several examples where it would not fit or at least be a plausible omission.

[ArchonShiva]

It's like the HighSociety! skill without the actual skills.