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Old 01-09-2015, 02:14 PM   #11
McAllister
 
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Default Re: GURPS Overhaul - Initiative, Revised

I like it a lot. My biggest concern is that it would end up feeling like Initiative Passes from 4th Edition Shadowrun, but then again, that's not a bad thing: all it means is that being fast is really, really important.

I think most people would need this to be simplified before use, but it's hardly the sort of thing that's intended to be adopted on a large scale, is it? I think it's a good system for what it is. The only change I'd make is to drop fractional IP, those add a level of mindboggle even if a computer is handling them. They're just not intuitive.
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Old 01-09-2015, 02:47 PM   #12
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Default Re: GURPS Overhaul - Initiative, Revised

Let's start by defining some relevant stats for our characters. Jedi is a force sword wielder, Blast is a gunslinger with two blasters, Tech has a holdout blaster and a fine large vibroknife, Princess has a sporting blaster pistol and a cortosis-weave (ignores Destructive Parry) superfine balanced light edged vibrorapier, Cyborg has a heavy blaster rifle and a hyperdense cortosis-weave superfine dwarven great vibroaxe, Tank has a force sword and a heavy medium cortosis-weave shield, Sith has a double-bladed force sword.

Jedi has ST 12, DX 15, HT 12, BS 9, Init 15, Move 8.4. He's at No Encumbrance, so he has a movement cost of 6 IP per yard. He has Force Sword 20 and Tech! (Force Sword) +5, Karate 18, Judo 16, Acrobatics 20, Parry Missile Weapons 18, Enhanced Time Sense, and Trained By a Master. His weapon can thrust (45 IP) for 6d(10) burn, swing (60 IP) for 8d(5), or Parry (25 IP) at 14 (melee) or 13 (ranged). He can Dodge (10 IP) at 13.

Blast has ST 10, DX 13, HT 11, BS 6, Init 12, Move 5. He's also at No Encumbrance, for 10 IP per yard. He's wearing a full suit of nanoweave (class 1 eye protection), optimized against Burn rather than Cut/Pi, for DR 16A/2. He has an anti-burn Trauma Plate in the front, giving full protection to the Vitals and 4/6 protection to the Torso, for a further DR 40A/5. Similar plates protect his Skull. All Burn DR is semi-ablative (the "A"). His blasters deal 7d(2) Burn + 1d+2 cr ex inc follow-up, with RoF 3, Range 360/1100, Acc 4, Bulk -3, Rcl 4. They can be set to stun - 1d-1 cr (with triple knockback) + HT-2 Stunning follow-up, RoF 1, Range 10/30. His energy cells are good for 30 shots, although each Stun shot takes up 3. He has Blasters (Pistol) 20, Tech! (Pistol) +3, Brawling 15, Judo 14, Acrobatics 16, Fast Draw (Ammo) 16, Enhanced Time Sense, and Gunslinger (blaster pistols). He can fire his weapons for 20 IP per shot, but they can only fire 3 times every 5 Ticks. He can Dodge (10 IP) at 10.

Tech has ST 9, DX 11, HT 10, BS 5, Init 10, Move 5. He's at Light Encumbrance, for 12.5 IP per yard. He has the same armor setup as Blast, and also has a light shield generator, giving him an extra fully-ablative DR 25 that is Hardened 2 and regenerates at a rate of 1 DR per Tick. His holdout blaster deals 5d(2) Burn + 1d cr ex inc follow-up, with RoF 1, Range 200/700, Acc 1, Bulk -1, Rcl 5. It lacks a stun setting and its energy cells are good for 10 shots. He has Blasters (Pistol) 13, Knife 12, and no other combat skills. His blaster requires 20 IP per shot, but can only fire it once every 5 Ticks. His knife takes 35 IP to draw and can thrust (55 IP) for 1d-2(3) imp or swing (65 IP) for 2d(3) cut or Parry (35 IP) at 8. He can Dodge (10 IP) at 7.

Princess has ST 12, DX 14, HT 12, BS 7, Init 13, Move 5. She's at No Encumbrance, for 10 IP per yard. She's wearing a stylish dress that gives 5/6 protection to the Torso, 4/6 to the Legs, none to the Neck or above, and full protection elsewhere. It's made of two layers - the first gives DR 16A/2 (16 vs Burn), the second gives DR 4/1 (4 vs Pi/Cut). It has small antiballistic trauma plates protecting the Vitals from the Front and Back with DR 40A/5. Her sporting blaster pistol deals 6d+1(2) Burn + 1d+1 cr ex inc follow-up, with RoF 1, Range 420/1300, Acc 5, Bulk -4, Rcl 4. It can stun for 1d-1 cr tkb + HT-2 Stunning follow-up, Range 11/36. Its energy cells are good for 80 shots, but each stun shot takes up 5. She has Blasters (Pistol) 16, Rapier 20 (21 with Balanced), Tech! (Rapier) +3, Karate 16, Judo 16, Acrobatics 16, Combat Reflexes, and Weapon Master (Rapier). Her blaster pistol takes 20 IP per shot but can only fire once every 5 Ticks. Her rapier costs 35 to draw and can thrust (55 IP) for 2d(5) imp or swing (65 IP) for 4d(5) cut or Parry (35 IP) at 14. She can Dodge (10 IP) at 11.

Cyborg has ST 20, HP 14, DX 12, HT 14, BS 8, Init 13, Move 7.8. He's at Light Encumbrance, for 8 IP per yard. He's wearing plate armor with Class X eye protection (but it's transparent, so no effect on vision) that gives him DR 68A/44/32 (Burn, Pi/Cut, everything else) for the Skull, Chest, and Feet, DR 23A/15/11 for the Eyes, Neck, Hands, and Joints, and 34A/22/16 everywhere else. His arming garment gives DR 24A/3 (optimized vs Burn) to armor gaps. His heavy blaster rifle does 11d+2(2) Burn + 2d+1 cr ex inc follow-up, with RoF 5, Range 800/2300, Acc 8, Bulk -8, Rcl 2. It lacks a stun setting. Its energy cells are good for 24 shots. He has Blasters (Rifle) 17, Boxing 16, Judo 12, Two Handed Axe/Mace 20, Targeted Attack (Axe Swing/Neck) 18, Huge Weapons (+4 ST for determining MinST), Reach Mastery (Great Axe), Armor Familiarity (Judo), Combat Reflexes, and Weapon Master (Great Axe). His blaster rifle costs 20 IP to shoot, or he can go full auto for an initial cost of 23 IP and 13 IP (23 IP to retain Aim) per Tick thereafter, firing 1 shot per Tick. His axe can swing (75 IP) for 6d+1(10) cut or Parry (40 IP) at 14. He can Dodge (10 IP) at 11.

Tank has ST 16, DX 10, HT 16, BS 5, Init 10, Move 5.6. He's at Medium Encumbrance, for 15 IP per yard. He's wearing a double-thickness version of Cyborg's armor - DR 136A/88/64 to Skull, Chest, and Feet, DR 46A/30/22 for Eyes, Neck, Hands, and Joints, and DR 68A/44/32 everywhere else. He's got the same arming garment, for 24A/3 to armor gaps. His shield gives DB 3. He's got Force Sword 16, Targeted Attack (Force Sword Swing/Neck) 14, Parry Missile Weapons 20, Shield 16, Enhanced Time Sense, Shield Wall Training, and Weapon Master (Force Sword and Shield). His force sword can thrust (45 IP) for 6d(10) burn or swing (55 IP) for 8d(5) burn, and Parry (25 IP) at 12+3 (melee) or 14+3 (ranged). His shield can thrust (45 IP) for 1d+1 cr, and Block (35 IP) at 15 (melee) or 17 (ranged). He can Dodge (10 IP) at 6.

Sith has ST 9, DX 18, HT 12, BS 10, Init 20, Move 5. He's at No Encumbrance, for 10 IP per yard. He has a special ability, Force Strike, which has Range 15, and either does 2d cr tkb or functions as TK 20 (it uses Innate Attack in either case). He can control the direction (and severity) of the tripled knockback, but he has to release one hand from his weapon, causing him to rely on Force Sword instead of Force Staff. He has Force Staff 20, Tech! (Force Staff) +5, Force Sword 16, Parry Missile Weapons 20, Acrobatics 20, Innate Attack 18, Enhanced Time Sense, and Trained by a Master. As a staff, his weapon can thrust (50) for 6d(5) or swing (65) for 8d(5), and can Parry (30) at 15 (melee and ranged). As a sword, his weapon costs 60 and 75 to thrust, and can Parry (40) at 12 (melee) or 14 (ranged). Switching from staff to sword (necessary to use Force Strike) costs nothing; switching from sword to staff costs 20 IP. Force Strike costs 40 IP to strike or grapple, and cannot be Parried or Blocked.


The battle will start with each our heroes in a hangar bay with some convenient small crates (crouching behind them gives -2 to hit you, thanks to cover) strewn through it. They are approaching a 4-yard-wide blaster door when it suddenly opens, revealing two men (Tank and Sith) standing dramatically behind it. Jedi is 5 yards from the door, force sword out but unignited (10 IP to ignite, instantly available; counts as a free action, not a maneuver). Blast is 12 yards from the door and has a crate in front of him; both blasters are drawn. Tech is a couple yards from the door, crouched at the control panel (to try and open the door) and with his weapons still holstered but his shield up. Princess is 7 yards from the door, a crate a yard to her left (and further from the door), with her blaster out. Cyborg is 15 yards from the door, crouching and bracing his blaster rifle on a crate. Tank is a yard from the door, force sword ignited and shield ready. Sith is 6 yards from the door, near a crate and with force staff out but unignited.

First up is rolling of initiative. This isn't a case of Surprise, so everyone starts with 50 IP. Jedi rolls a 12, for MoS 9 - he starts at 95 IP. Blast rolls a 13, for MoS 1 - 55 IP. Tech rolls a 12, for MoF 2 - 40 IP. Princess rolls a 5, for MoS 10 - 100 IP. Cyborg rolls a 15, for MoS 0 - 50 IP. Tank rolls a 5, for MoS 11 - 105 IP. Sith rolls a 7, for MoS 19 - 145 IP. I'll be using an Excel file to keep track of IP - see the previous thread for the formula.

Sith goes first. He dramatically activates his weapon (10 IP) in a sword grip and uses Force Strike to attack Jedi. He's 11 yards out, for -5 to hit, and goes -2 deceptive. He puts 60 IP into the attack for a +2 to hit. A roll of 13 makes it. Jedi attempts a Dodge for 10 IP - 6 makes it.

Tank is next. He walks forward 2 yards for 25 IP.

Princess is up now. She takes a Delay to start Aiming at Tank. IP drops to 90.

Tick

Princess is up again. She keeps Aiming, dropping IP to 90.

Jedi gets to go. He Steps while activating his force sword (10 IP) and Delays, intending to strike Tank if he gets within 2 yards.

Tick

Sith goes. He tries to hit Jedi again for 40 IP. He's only at -4 now, and he goes -2 Deceptive again. 15 misses.

Jedi again. He Steps and makes a Rapid Strike (-3) thrust at Tank's Neck (-5) for 45 IP. Tech! drops the total to only -3, and he goes another -2 for Deceptive on each. 9 hits, and Tank opts to Parry for 25 IP - 11 makes it. 10 also hits, and Tank opts for another Parry for 25 IP - 9 makes it.

Princess keeps Aiming.

Tick

Princess keeps Aiming. She gets her Acc as a bonus now.

continues...
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Old 01-09-2015, 02:47 PM   #13
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Default Re: GURPS Overhaul - Initiative, Revised

Tick

Sith again. He spends 60 on his attack this time, going -4 Deceptive. 13 hits. Jedi tries a Dodge for 10 IP - 14 fails! Sith deals 6 cr to Jedi, for 18 knockback - 1 yard. Sith moves Jedi into Princess's line of fire in hopes of spoiling her attack. Jedi must roll vs DX to stay up - 15 fails, and Jedi is on his back. He also loses 25 IP for taking 50% HP in injury. He rolls 8 against HT, recovering 20 of that. He's at -4 for shock for the next 5 Ticks.

Blast's turn. No need to Aim with Gunslinger, so he makes a Dual Weapon Attack (-2) at Tank's Face (-5); Tech! makes this only -3, and it costs 20 IP. Acc gives +4, range gives -5, so he's at skill 16. 12's a hit. Tank attempts to Parry for 25 IP and rolls a 6, deflecting it. 9 is another hit. Tank tries for another Parry for 25 IP and rolls an 11, which also deflects.

Princess's turn. Jedi is on the ground and not in her sight line, so she fires - 20 IP to fire, 10 IP to maintain Aim. She's got a +5 from Acc, -3 from range. She aims for the Torso and goes -2 deceptive. 15 hits. Tank tries for a Parry for 20 IP (all he has left) - 10 makes it.

Cyborg's turn. He's got a clear sight line against Tank, who looks a bit overwhelmed, so he opens full-auto fire, for 23 IP. He's at -5 for range, so is only rolling against 13 (+1 for Braced). 15 misses.

Tick

Blast is up again. He opens up on Tank again, repeating the same thing he did before. 13 hits, and Tank's down to 10 IP; he opts to spend it all (for -3) on a Parry - a 10 does it. Another 13 hits, and now Tank is forced to make a 0 IP Parry, at -7 - 15 fails and he's hit in the face. A 1 on 1d means he hits the eye. Blast rolls 21 damage, which isn't enough to get through Tank's face plate, although it does ablate 4 DR (DR 64A now).

Cyborg forgoes gaining IP to keep firing. 10 hits. 11 means Tank is hit. A 1 on 1d (again?) means a Vitals hit. Cyborg rolls 35 damage, which doesn't get through, although it drops chest DR to 129A.

Tick

Jedi's up now. He's at -4 shock, so he opts to spend 50 IP getting up to kneeling.

Tech finally gets a turn. He's not going to be able to punch through armor that's been absorbing bolts from much stronger blasters, so he Steps out to get a line on Sith.

Cyborg keeps shooting, this time switching to shoot at the abdomen (-1). 12 hits. Tank opts against spending IP and accepts a -7 - 11 means he's hit. 2 on 1d is nothing special, and Cyborg rolls 49 for damage. That gets 15 points past DR (although the follow-up explodes too early to be internal), followed by 6 cr. Tank is below 0 HP - 13 keeps him up. He's also just suffered a Major Wound - 10 keeps him up. 15 injury causes a loss of 45 IP - a roll of 14 against HT restores 10 of that. 6 injury causes a loss of 15 IP - a roll of 8 negates all of that. Tank is now Stunned.

Tick

Sith's turn. He uses Force Strike to try and get Tank behind some cover, with a push rather than a strike. A 12 makes it, and he rolls 6 - doubled for a push and tripled for tkb, that's 36, enough to move Tank 2 yards. It's not enough for cover yet, unfortunately. Tank has to roll against DX-1 to stay up - 9 just does it.

Princess is up now. She's still got a bead on Tank, so she fires again, this time at the neck, for only 20 IP (she's not expecting another chance). 15 misses.

Next up is Blast. He's still at -5 for range, so he tries the same thing again. 9 hits, a 4 on 1d is nothing special, and Tank can't defend (Dodge-4 is 2), so Blast does 24 to his face, dropping Face DR to 64A. Next is an 8 (6 on 1d), for another Face hit, for 27 damage, dropping Face DR to 59A.

Tech gets another turn. He fires at Sith. 13 misses.

Jedi is in Cyborg's line of sight, so he stops shooting.

Tick

Cyborg's turn. He drops his rifle (well, leaves it on the crate) and draws his axe while Stepping, for 45 IP.

Blast's turn. Might as well keep shooting at that ablating face plate. He rolls a 6 for both shots - two crits! 8 for the first means double shock (if it penetrates), 5 for the second means double damage. A 4 and 4 on 1d each mean nothing special. First hit does 32, for 2 penetrating (and Face DR drops to 53A). Follow-up does another 6 cr. For the second hit, he rolls 30, doubled to 60, for 33 penetrating. Enough gets through this time for the explosion to be internal - 9 is doubled to 18, for 54 injury. Tank is now at -98 HP and has an exploded head.



Tick

There's a brief moment of silence for poor Tank.

Tick

Sith's turn. He uses Acrobatics - rolling a 6 and easily making it - to vault over the nearest crate and get to some cover, spending 30 IP to move 4 yards (I gave him an extra yard for that crit). Blast has a partial (-2 to hit) line of sight, Tech has a full one.

Blast tries a double shot at Sith's torso. He's at -6 for Range, -2 for partial cover, and +4 for Acc. A 13 hits - 3 on 1d is nothing special. Sith goes for an Acrobatic (thanks to his previous movement) Dodge, with a target of only 16 - 8 makes it easily. An 8 means another hit, but 10 is another Dodge. Sith's down 20 IP.

Jedi goes next. Shock has worn off, so he uses Acrobatics to stand. -3 to Acrobatics reduces that to a yard, and 10 makes it - standing costs 6 IP. He moves another yard toward Sith for another 6 IP.

Tech's up again, but his blaster's cooling down. He moves a yard toward Sith, for 12.5 IP.

Tick

Princess is up. She drops her blaster and draws her rapier (35 IP) while taking a Step.

Jedi again. Two more yards forward.

Blast's turn. Jedi's in the way, so he uses Acrobatics to hop up onto the crate in front of him (as a Step). 6 is a Critical Success - in addition to seeing over Jedi, he's momentarily got a full line of sight on Sith. Another double shot, for 9 and 8. 5 and 2 mean nothing special. Sith uses another 10 IP on each of two Acrobatic Dodges - 12 and 10 both make it easily.

Tick

Tech's turn. He's got a clear line of sight and his blaster's ready to shoot again. He Steps forward and risks a shot at skill 10 - 7 hits. Sith only spends 5 IP on this Dodge (taking a -2), and a 10 does the trick.

Jedi's turn. 2 more yards toward Sith.

continues...
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Old 01-09-2015, 02:48 PM   #14
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Default Re: GURPS Overhaul - Initiative, Revised

Tick

Cyborg charges forward, moving 3 yards for 24 IP.

Jedi's turn. He takes a Step and does a swing (60 IP) against Sith's torso, taking a -4 for Deceptive. Sith opts to combine Ward and Counter (using each side of his staff) with Counterattack, for a total -3 to hit (thanks to Tech!). He's got to Parry first, though - he spends 25 IP and 1 FP (for +2) on that and rolls a 12, which makes it. He does a further -2 Deceptive (Jedi will be at a total -6 to Parry, -2 to Dodge) for his swing (65 IP) and rolls a 9, a hit. Jedi's best bet is a Dodge - he goes acrobatic (8 makes it easily) and rolls a 14 - he's hit! Sith deals 30 damage, dropping Jedi to -2xHP. Jedi rolls a 10 on his first Death Check, but a 14 on his second - he falls down, suffering a Mortal Wound. He's functionally out of the fight.

Princess's turn. She can't see what's going on (wall is in her way), but she continues on, moving a yard.

Tick

Blast's up, and he's none too happy about Jedi getting dropped. He Steps off the crate, firing at Sith. Another double, 13 and 8. Sith uses Acrobatics for Acrobatic Dodge - 10 makes it. He spends 5 IP on each Dodge, negating the Acrobatic bonus, and rolls a 7 and 8 - both make it handily.

Tech's next, but his blaster's still recharging. He moves 2 yards closer.

Princess again, moving another 2 yards.

Cyborg moves 2 yards.

Tick

Blast again. He moves 2 yards closer.

Tick

Cyborg moves another 3 yards.

Princess moves another 2 yards. She sees Jedi now and is regretting leaving her blaster behind.

Tech's turn. Blaster's still recharging, so he moves another yard closer.

Tick

Blast goes first. Princess is in his line of sight, so he yells at her to get out of the way and moves another 2 yards closer.

Princess moves another 2 yards, getting closer to Sith while clearing the way for Blast.

Cyborg moves another 2 yards.

Tech takes a Step and fires at Sith. He's at -2 for range and spends an extra 10 IP for a +1 to hit. 11 makes it. Sith goes for a 10 IP Dodge - 12 makes it.

Tick

Blast has a good opening. He takes another Step and fires off another two-fer. 15 and 10 each hit. Sith goes Acrobatic - 11 makes it. He tries both Dodges at 5 IP each (negating the Acrobatic bonus) - 10 and 11 make it.

Tick

Sith's turn. He Steps toward Princess and takes DWA - a Feint followed by a thrust to the Skull - he rolls 13 on the Feint, 9 on the attack. Princess rolls an 8 to resist the Feint, negating it. She opts for a Counterattack. She Parries for 35 IP and 1 FP (for +2) - 14 makes it. She uses a swing to the torso for her counterattack, going -4 Deceptive - 12 makes it. Sith can Parry at -4 or Dodge at -3. He opts for the Dodge, spending 10 IP on it. 10 makes it.

Cyborg moves another 3 yards.

Tick

Blast does some more shooting at Sith. 10 and 12 hit. Sith tries two dodges at 10 IP each. 9 and 6 each make it.

Tech's up again, and takes a Step back.

Tick

Cyborg moves another 3 steps. He's in Blast's line of sight, but has nearly reached Sith.

Blast's line of sight is blocked again. He curses at Cyborg and moves a couple yards forward.

Tick

Tech's up. His blaster's recharged, so he Steps back and takes another hopeless shot. 13 goes wide.

Cyborg's up. He Steps forward and takes a swing at Sith's Neck. A 7 is a Crit! 12 means Sith will drop his weapon - although with 6d+1 cut, that's probably a moot point. A 1 on 1d means a hit to the arteries. Cyborg rolls 20 damage, for 50 injury, dropping Sith below -4xHP. 12 keeps him up, as do 11, 10, and 8. He's got to roll against HT-3 to avoid unconsciousness - 12 doesn't make it. He'll bleed out shortly (he's only 4 HP away from -5xHP).


The battle took 21 Time Steps (4.2 seconds) to resolve. It took me 3 hours to game out, but a lot of that was getting MapTools to cooperate, doing lookups that likely wouldn't take as long in actual play (I had to constantly look back up at the character "sheets," which weren't very well formatted to follow along), and of course writing things out. An epic battle, but holy crap was it over quick (in game time). I need to give the way I have firearms working some serious thought. It also occurs to me that I've made even more of a "wear this for DB, don't bother with skill" device than it is now. High Init is definitely worthwhile, and particularly low Init characters need to manage their defenses closely - Tank got killed before he could do anything in large part because he spend too much IP on early defenses, leaving him to eventually have nothing left.
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Old 01-09-2015, 03:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: GURPS Overhaul - Initiative, Revised

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I'll be using an Excel file to keep track of IP...
Well, yes. Anything that requires computer support for the GM during a combat is too complex for face-to-face gaming, because the computer is a terrible distraction from keeping track of how the players are behaving and reacting.

If everyone was playing via computer, this kind of thing could easily be integrated into the software. But playing via computer means you don't have a very social game.
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Old 01-09-2015, 03:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: GURPS Overhaul - Initiative, Revised

Just skimmed it, but that was almost how it played out when I ran it on IRC, actually, except Tank's hands were chopped off and Sith fled when she saw the fight not go her way.

Using IRC with a dicebot for rolls, we took about 2 hours to play it out. Face to face would probably have taken less time.
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Old 01-10-2015, 12:18 AM   #17
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Default Re: GURPS Overhaul - Initiative, Revised

Ok first off I really like the concept (accumulating and spending IP).

and actually I really like the way you use IP as currency to leverage effects, giving another trade off than just skill.
But there's a lot there and it impacts on almost every aspect of combat so will have to play it a lot before I can do a proper look.

At first glance it changes the current balance between attack and defence (this is not necessarily a bad thing of course, but it is a thing). Defences have gone from being functionally free unless AoA or trading against attack effect to having a delaying cost. But defences are quicker than attacks. The ability to increase defence for IP is a powerful one, defence having usually less negative mods and tending to float around the middle of the bell curve. Interestingly you've made parries slower than dodges and parries from long two handed weapons slower than other parries (I think*?). Which would seem to counter the rules in MA regarding their use. My issue with that is that dodge has more utility for defence (wider application, no worries about weapon size, don't need to carry shield, no issue with unwieldy weapons) normally this is counterbalanced by being harder to buy up. In your first example the knight can dodge for 20IP and parry for 40IP. Which means he could dodge at +4 as quickly as parry, and still suffer the unwieldy penalty.


We also need to ST ratings for shield as weapons (but then we need them anyway unless they are hidden somewhere and i've never found them)



One thing, posts on forum are probably not the best way to do this. Do you have blog where you could write this up in one go (or even put it up as word doc on a sharing site).

My first step is going to be copy and pasting your posts into a doc and reordering.

It is one more thing to track and there is no getting around the fact it is quite a complicated thing to track too

Ironically I think for it works well for multiple combatants as it blends them well, and the extra work for each subsequent combatant after the first 2 is less than it is for the first two.

Now I'm writing this from a back ground of playing shadowrun, and liking the tick systems from hackmaster and Twilight 2013 (but didn't play them so may be missing something), and I think initiative is one of the few gaps in GURPS left.

Anyway cheers for putting in what's obviously been a lot of work!

TD

*actually you haven't because parry is based off thrust IP not swing, but that means all thrust attacks are essentially as quick as each other which I'm not sure about (I'm thinking maybe variable trade off rates for effect/speed for different weapons but lets not add anything else just yet!)

Last edited by Tomsdad; 01-11-2015 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 01-10-2015, 04:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: GURPS Overhaul - Initiative, Revised

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
It took me 3 hours to game out, but a lot of that was getting MapTools to cooperate, doing lookups that likely wouldn't take as long in actual play (I had to constantly look back up at the character "sheets," which weren't very well formatted to follow along), and of course writing things out. ...
Also I assume you were doing this by yourself so if you had others it might go quicker (in theory anyway).

Quick question

How would you fit in advantages like extra attack (I want to say half IP costs fo relevant things), ETS & ATR, the former was mentioned for the jedi but not sure if I saw an in game effect come in.
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Old 01-10-2015, 10:36 AM   #19
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Default Re: GURPS Overhaul - Initiative, Revised

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Well, yes. Anything that requires computer support for the GM during a combat is too complex for face-to-face gaming, because the computer is a terrible distraction from keeping track of how the players are behaving and reacting.

If everyone was playing via computer, this kind of thing could easily be integrated into the software. But playing via computer means you don't have a very social game.
Both of these statements are making some pretty broad assumptions about people, bordering uncomfortably on "hurting wrong fun".

Of course, anyone who's checking their facebook or twitter while GMing is a bad GM, no argument. However, if they're that uninterested in running the game, they'll likely be a badly distracted GM even if you take their computer away.

On the other hand, if you're using the computer to vastly speed up the dice rolling, status conditions, and damage tracking for a horde of 20 enemies (or the like), that can only increase the amount of attention the GM has to spend on the players, instead of on accounting.

I find it helps even for smoothing over tracking the status, hitpoints, and fp for five or six enemies - Who's stunned and rolling to recover at what bonus, who's at 1/3rd hitpoints, who's got what pain penalty, and so forth. For some people, this is done best with condition cards or markers and the like, and some people can keep it in their heads. For me, condition cards or markers are distracting, and I'd rather use my memory to keep track of what the players are doing now than how many HP a given mook has.

The initiative system proposed does look like one that would be nigh unplayable without automation, at least for me. With automation it would improve, but I'm not sure how much out-of-game effort I'd have to put into it until I had an app that was fast enough and easy to use enough to slot smoothly into gameplay for me.

I particularly don't like the random factor involved in rolling for initiative, automation or not. It smells of double-rewarding someone for having a high Initiative, and I've never been convinced of random initiative being fun.
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Old 01-10-2015, 12:18 PM   #20
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: GURPS Overhaul - Initiative, Revised

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Both of these statements are making some pretty broad assumptions about people, bordering uncomfortably on "hurting wrong fun".
Sorry. This is biased by my sight problems. Switching between looking-at-screen and looking-at-people-ten-feet-away modes takes me whole seconds in taking glasses on and off and refocussing. This has become so familiar over the last five years that I forget how unusual it is.
Quote:
On the other hand, if you're using the computer to vastly speed up the dice rolling, status conditions, and damage tracking for a horde of 20 enemies (or the like), that can only increase the amount of attention the GM has to spend on the players, instead of on accounting.
I find that much easier using notes on paper, which I can switch to more easily than a screen, and where I can improvise symbols to jog memory much more easily than typing correctly or clicking a GUI.

Also, everyone I've ever seen try to use a computer as a direct support tool in a session has ended up focussed on it, rather than the players. I can believe you manage not to, but you put more effort into this kind of stuff than most people.
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