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Old 11-06-2014, 01:00 PM   #21
ErhnamDJ
 
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Default Re: Balancing High Size Modifier

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Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
Though the paratrooper still has a bad deal here. With larger numbers of more damaging attacks being easier to hit isn't fun.
Yeah, but that problem is going to apply whenever a character goes into combat, which is much more common. There are entire settings where characters just won't care about the increased equipment weight at all. The sword and sorcery character is easy to hit and his armor weighs double.
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Old 11-06-2014, 01:43 PM   #22
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Balancing High Size Modifier

One thing that gets overlooked here is that Combat at Different Levels (p. B402) is supposed to apply, which benefits the taller fighter, although it is still very unclear to me where you measure (shoulder to shoulder? crown to crown?).

I ran into an interesting problem with this in my DF game, because Dwarves end up getting all of the drawbacks of being short but are still SM 0.
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Old 11-06-2014, 01:51 PM   #23
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Default Re: Balancing High Size Modifier

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One thing that gets overlooked here is that Combat at Different Levels (p. B402) is supposed to apply, which benefits the taller fighter, although it is still very unclear to me where you measure (shoulder to shoulder? crown to crown?).
That does have some effect, assuming it's not foot height, but it's not too surprising that people forget about them, it's not terribly intuitive to think "two guys fighting on flat ground, I'd better use the rules for fighting on slopes". Also, those rules aren't particularly good to start with.
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Old 11-06-2014, 01:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: Balancing High Size Modifier

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That does have some effect, assuming it's not foot height,
It is definitely not foot height! Otherwise the thing on Martial Arts p 98 about fighters with more than +/-1 SM or on p. 115 about fighting smaller Horizontal creatures wouldn't make any sense.
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Old 11-06-2014, 01:57 PM   #25
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Default Re: Balancing High Size Modifier

Combat at Different Levels also gives a constant bonus so once you are larger than most foes it isn't giving any more benefit. If you are normally benefiting from it that also effectively removed the the benefits when you would normally qualify. It's a handy bonus but it definitely has limitations.
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Old 11-06-2014, 02:58 PM   #26
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Default Re: Balancing High Size Modifier

The easiest fix for balancing size modifier is introducing wounding modifiers for relative size. The simplist is just downgrading piercing sizes based on relative SM, though that won't do much good at low tech since there's not much that does piercing. A more complete version, such as mine, runs the risk of reversing the problem and making SM too good (for example, under my proposal an Ellylon will be making death checks for almost any injury caused by a SM+0 foe).
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Old 11-06-2014, 03:00 PM   #27
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Default Re: Balancing High Size Modifier

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The easiest fix for balancing size modifier is introducing wounding modifiers for relative size.
Are the insides of a taller man that much more resilient than the insides of a man half his height? Do you still get the same modifier for things like the brain and vitals?
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Old 11-06-2014, 03:23 PM   #28
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Default Re: Balancing High Size Modifier

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Are the insides of a taller man that much more resilient than the insides of a man half his height? Do you still get the same modifier for things like the brain and vitals?
Humans should often only be treated as SM+0, even if they're just tall enough for SM+1, for purposes of things like SM-based wounding modifiers. That said, there are good reasons to have wounding modifiers for weapon/projectile size stack with those for hit location (so a Pi++ bullet has a higher WM than a Pi- one in the Skull or Vitals), and in cases like that having a creature's SM come into play hardly seems outlandish.
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Old 11-06-2014, 03:25 PM   #29
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Default Re: Balancing High Size Modifier

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Are the insides of a taller man that much more resilient than the insides of a man half his height? Do you still get the same modifier for things like the brain and vitals?
Yes, making a 1" hole in an object 12" across is less important than making a 1" hole in an object 6" across. No, brain and vitals just increase effective wound size.
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Humans should often only be treated as SM+0, even if they're just tall enough for SM+1, for purposes of things like SM-based wounding modifiers.
This is a granularity problem, plus a problem with relative proportions changing with increased size (the difference in brain sizes between a 98-lb weakling and a 300 lb offensive linesman is negligible, so even HP scaling is a bit peculiar there).

On the other hand, if you're going to give the giant the penalties for SM+1, might as well apply the bonuses as well.
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Old 11-07-2014, 02:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: Balancing High Size Modifier

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Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ View Post
Except the sword and sorcery character gets the worst disadvantage: double clothing and armor weight.
That is a disadvantage but its a specific one to do with resources rather than say a combat one, and IME resources are either a problem for everything (PC's are skint) or it no problem at all (PC's are flush)*. However S&S to me infers less resource management and more loin clothes (but S&S varies, yours may not)

*although having to go without armour can quickly become a combat disadvantage!

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I agree that the value of the disadvantage varies wildly between games. In a horror game set in the 1920s, it's little more than flavor ("The detective you're looking for is the tallest man I ever seen!"). But in a low-tech game where characters are constantly in combat and need to wear armor? It's a huge disadvantage. I've been offering SM+1 as a -20 disad in my fantasy game and still no one has taken it.
Fair enough, for me someone with the typical advantages that tend to go with being very big have little difficulty it meeting the extra upkeep cost, but different campaign types differ.

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And I hate trying to balance through workarounds like adjusting the price of ST. Not all large characters are going to have a high ST. Is the weak giant disadvantaged less than the strong one? I don't think so.

True but unless that Giant has ST10 they are still going to see some benefit. The thing is SM+ makes big strong builds easier that is one of it's advantages*. If however you don't want to take advantage of that that's your decision rather than a failing of the SM+ costing (IMO).

*especially when you factor in the Grappling advantages, (SM and ST value add to each other, and SM makes ST cheaper)
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