[Basic] Skill Question: Dropping vs Artillery (Bombs)

nerdvana · 10-21-2014, 01:18 PM

I have searched the forums and I cannot find any point where this is addressed.

I have skimmed (and thread searched) both "recent" threads on Artillery ("[Basic] Skill of the week: Artillery (and Forward Observer)" and "Artillery") and found no discussion of this question.

Other than "one (Dropping) is DX-based and one is IQ-based" and "one (Artillery) is a technology skill and the other is not" is there any real difference between Dropping and Artillery (Bombs)? If not, why isn't there a default or equivalence between the two? or even better, why isn't Dropping folded into Artillery (Bombs) and allowed to be used based on the better of DX or IQ?

WaterAndWindSpirit · 10-21-2014, 01:24 PM

Artillery (bomb) is the use of laser guided bombs, how to effectively make a bombing run with a bomber (from modern bombers to the old Stuka), in short, how to use equipment optimized for the job.

Dropping is more like a WWI guy at the back of a plane manually throwing grenades, bricks, boots or food cans on the enemy.

sir_pudding · 10-21-2014, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nerdvana

I have searched the forums and I cannot find any point where this is addressed.

I have skimmed (and thread searched) both "recent" threads on Artillery ("[Basic] Skill of the week: Artillery (and Forward Observer)" and "Artillery") and found no discussion of this question.

Other than "one (Dropping) is DX-based and one is IQ-based" and "one (Artillery) is a technology skill and the other is not" is there any real difference between Dropping and Artillery (Bombs)? If not, why isn't there a default or equivalence between the two? or even better, why isn't Dropping folded into Artillery (Bombs) and allowed to be used based on the better of DX or IQ?

Artillery (Bombs) probably requires some form of bombsight.

nerdvana · 10-21-2014, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

Artillery (bomb) is the use of laser guided bombs, how to effectively make a bombing run with a bomber (from modern bombers to the old Stuka), in short, how to use equipment optimized for the job.

Dropping is more like a WWI guy at the back of a plane manually throwing grenades, bricks, boots or food cans on the enemy.

Can't just be about laser guided bombs because you could have it at lower tech levels (including the WWII guy dropping bombs out of planes). I just don't see how dropping an explosive (a rock that goes bang! when it hits) out of a plane with a scope helping you see the target is terribly different from being able to carry a rock when you fly and being able to hit a target using your eyes other than equipment and skills aren't always about the equipment (brawling works the same whether you are using your bare fist, a gauntlet or a sap, frex)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Artillery (Bombs) probably requires some form of bombsight.

But wouldn't that just mean that Artillery/TL 0-? (Bombs) is Dropping? :)

sir_pudding · 10-21-2014, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nerdvana

Can't just be about laser guided bombs because you could have it at lower tech levels (including the WWII guy dropping bombs out of planes).

Bombsights in both cases though.

Quote:

I just don't see how dropping an explosive (a rock that goes bang! when it hits) out of a plane with a scope helping you see the target is terribly different from being able to carry a rock when you fly and being able to hit a target using your eyes other than equipment and skills aren't always about the equipment (brawling works the same whether you are using your bare fist, a gauntlet or a sap, frex)

Artillery is a weird and confusing skill in GURPS. It's still unclear to me why it is an IQ based skill at all, if it doesn't include any fire direction.

nerdvana · 10-21-2014, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Bombsights in both cases though.
Artillery is a weird and confusing skill in GURPS. It's still unclear to me why it is an IQ based skill at all, if it doesn't include any fire direction.

I added the following to my reply to WaterAndWindSpirit, I think you missed it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Artillery (Bombs) probably requires some form of bombsight.

But wouldn't that just mean that Artillery/TL 0-? (Bombs) is Dropping? :)

sir_pudding · 10-21-2014, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nerdvana

I added the following to my reply to WaterAndWindSpirit, I think you missed it...

But wouldn't that just mean that Artillery/TL 0-? (Bombs) is Dropping? :)

Okay. I'm not sure what you are actually asking. The smiley is confusing me. At the risk of ruining the joke (and explaining the obvious) Artillery (Bombs) probably doesn't exist before TL6.

nerdvana · 10-21-2014, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Okay. I'm not sure what you are actually asking. The smiley is confusing me. At the risk of ruining the joke (and explaining the obvious) Artillery (Bombs) probably doesn't exist before TL6.

Oh, no joke. The smily was to say I'm not trying to be mean with this question. Fireworks go back farther... they are little bombs themselves... any explosive device (or just a heavy thing... for example in the skill of the week thread, Refplace commented on using it to target a magical meteor strike...)

Seems to me it isn't just about technology and bomb sights...

Varyon · 10-21-2014, 02:06 PM

Artillery is the skill for shooting things you can't see, thanks to distance and/or stuff in the way that you have to arc over. Gunner/Dropping is the skill of "OK, I see where my projectiles need to go, let's see if I can get them there." Artillery is the skill of "OK, I know the enemy is encamped on the other side of this hill, let's see if these howitzers can blow them up." In this case, I'd say you'd use Dropping to drop a bomb on "that building right there," you'd use Artillery (Bombs) to drop a bomb on "the enemy factory the map says I should be flying over right now."

Now, in theory, someone who is using Artillery to determine where to shoot/when to drop should still have to use Gunner/Dropping to actually hit their target. Artillery would thus be something akin to the ranged version of Blind Fighting - roll it to reduce/negate the penalties for being unable to resolve your actual target, then use the appropriate skill to actually hit. Personally, I'm typically alright with just using Artillery as the attack skill, although defaults may be appropriate (Gunner (Autocannon) and Artillery (Autocannon), Dropping and Artillery (Bombs), Bow and Artillery (Arrows), etc).

nerdvana · 10-21-2014, 02:09 PM

That makes sense Varyon, I guess it is a conflict between the RAW and the RAI.

10-21-2014, 01:18 PM	#1
nerdvana Join Date: Nov 2006	[Basic] Skill Question: Dropping vs Artillery (Bombs) I have searched the forums and I cannot find any point where this is addressed. I have skimmed (and thread searched) both "recent" threads on Artillery ("[Basic] Skill of the week: Artillery (and Forward Observer)" and "Artillery") and found no discussion of this question. Other than "one (Dropping) is DX-based and one is IQ-based" and "one (Artillery) is a technology skill and the other is not" is there any real difference between Dropping and Artillery (Bombs)? If not, why isn't there a default or equivalence between the two? or even better, why isn't Dropping folded into Artillery (Bombs) and allowed to be used based on the better of DX or IQ?

10-21-2014, 01:24 PM	#2
WaterAndWindSpirit Join Date: Oct 2014	Re: [Basic] Skill Question: Dropping vs Artillery (Bombs) Artillery (bomb) is the use of laser guided bombs, how to effectively make a bombing run with a bomber (from modern bombers to the old Stuka), in short, how to use equipment optimized for the job. Dropping is more like a WWI guy at the back of a plane manually throwing grenades, bricks, boots or food cans on the enemy.

10-21-2014, 02:06 PM	#9
Varyon Join Date: Jun 2013	Re: [Basic] Skill Question: Dropping vs Artillery (Bombs) Artillery is the skill for shooting things you can't see, thanks to distance and/or stuff in the way that you have to arc over. Gunner/Dropping is the skill of "OK, I see where my projectiles need to go, let's see if I can get them there." Artillery is the skill of "OK, I know the enemy is encamped on the other side of this hill, let's see if these howitzers can blow them up." In this case, I'd say you'd use Dropping to drop a bomb on "that building right there," you'd use Artillery (Bombs) to drop a bomb on "the enemy factory the map says I should be flying over right now." Now, in theory, someone who is using Artillery to determine where to shoot/when to drop should still have to use Gunner/Dropping to actually hit their target. Artillery would thus be something akin to the ranged version of Blind Fighting - roll it to reduce/negate the penalties for being unable to resolve your actual target, then use the appropriate skill to actually hit. Personally, I'm typically alright with just using Artillery as the attack skill, although defaults may be appropriate (Gunner (Autocannon) and Artillery (Autocannon), Dropping and Artillery (Bombs), Bow and Artillery (Arrows), etc).

10-21-2014, 02:09 PM	#10
nerdvana Join Date: Nov 2006	Re: [Basic] Skill Question: Dropping vs Artillery (Bombs) That makes sense Varyon, I guess it is a conflict between the RAW and the RAI.