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Old 09-07-2014, 05:56 PM   #21
Otaku
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Ambidexterity

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Originally Posted by munin View Post
The fact is that the OHW technique is priced fairly compared to other techniques to buy off situational penalties. That it's not a good deal compared to Ambidexterity probably means that Ambidexterity isn't priced correctly since its basically a wildcard technique to buy off all off-hand penalties. 15 points might be a better choice.

At 5 points it is a too-obvious pick for anyone who wants to do any double-handing. There's no question whether to take it or not. At 15 points it's more of a character-defining trait, and more appropriate for its actual rarity in real life.
One of the things I mentioned before was that back in 3e, it only cost 10 points and the general impression was that it was overpriced. You raise a good point, but perhaps you should consider it going the opposite direction:

If Ambidexterity is fair at [5], then perhaps Off-Hand Weapon Technique is overpriced, the penalty for using the offhand is too severe and/or Techniques aren't quite properly priced? In this case, RAW has revealed that at least Off-Hand Weapon Technique is overpriced, as it is now available as a penalty eliminating Perk.

I am kind of counting on the rest of the board showing me the error in my thinking, but I wonder if -2 penalty is more accurate for using your off hand; I mean it is kind of like having an "unfamiliar model" penalty for your own hand since it is still your hand, just not the dominant one with which you are "more familiar". A +2 circumstantial bonus seems inline with a Perk. I still wonder if we shouldn't have "Easy" Techniques as an option to reflect those things that you do still perform at a penalty (or equal to skill) but that you can rapidly raise disproportionate to the control skill's level.

In case I sound far more confident and demanding than I mean to be, I haven't even jotted this down before to give it a good once over, let alone tested it in play or real life, so... yeah. Mostly for entertainment value and to underscore why sometimes, specific mechanics don't play nice with each other. XD
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Old 09-07-2014, 06:29 PM   #22
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Ambidexterity

It's common opinion that the offhand weapon perk is the best way to go and that the technique was unfairly priced.
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Old 09-07-2014, 06:43 PM   #23
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Ambidexterity

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I am kind of counting on the rest of the board showing me the error in my thinking, but I wonder if -2 penalty is more accurate for using your off hand; I mean it is kind of like having an "unfamiliar model" penalty for your own hand since it is still your hand, just not the dominant one with which you are "more familiar".
It's clearly more significant than mere familiarity penalties. I shoot much much worse off-hand with a weapon that I've probably justified Weapon Bond with than I do even with a wholly unfamiliar firearm (which GURPS RAW gives ridiculous penalties for).
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A +2 circumstantial bonus seems inline with a Perk. I still wonder if we shouldn't have "Easy" Techniques as an option to reflect those things that you do still perform at a penalty (or equal to skill) but that you can rapidly raise disproportionate to the control skill's level.
Isn't a perk that removes a penalty the same thing as an "Easy" technique? Either way it's not going to cost less than a point.
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Old 09-07-2014, 07:36 PM   #24
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Ambidexterity

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It's clearly more significant than mere familiarity penalties. I shoot much much worse off-hand with a weapon that I've probably justified Weapon Bond with than I do even with a wholly unfamiliar firearm (which GURPS RAW gives ridiculous penalties for).
And getting rid of off hand penalties certainly takes more training than acquiring familiarity does...

How many times in your life have you been able to shoot a wholely unfamiliar firearm by GURPS standards? It's a fairly high bar...
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Old 09-07-2014, 08:42 PM   #25
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Ambidexterity

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
It's clearly more significant than mere familiarity penalties. I shoot much much worse off-hand with a weapon that I've probably justified Weapon Bond with than I do even with a wholly unfamiliar firearm (which GURPS RAW gives ridiculous penalties for). Isn't a perk that removes a penalty the same thing as an "Easy" technique? Either way it's not going to cost less than a point.
I didn't mean for it to cost less than a point; my poor idea was designed so that the Perk would be Akin to an Easy Technique... but don't worry, I believe you! My idea just makes it more complicated, not less, and is thus a failure.
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:06 PM   #26
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Ambidexterity

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The fact is that the OHW technique is priced fairly compared to other techniques to buy off situational penalties. That it's not a good deal compared to Ambidexterity probably means that Ambidexterity isn't priced correctly since its basically a wildcard technique to buy off all off-hand penalties. 15 points might be a better choice.
Nah, it means all techniques are overpriced. Note how it is never worthwhile to have more than 3 per skill. At 1/4 the price of raising the entire skill they'd need to apply to something like a quarter of the uses of the skill to be reasonably priced.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:39 PM   #27
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Ambidexterity

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Nah, it means all techniques are overpriced. Note how it is never worthwhile to have more than 3 per skill. At 1/4 the price of raising the entire skill they'd need to apply to something like a quarter of the uses of the skill to be reasonably priced.
That might lead to technique booms like 3rd's skill bloat issue.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:44 PM   #28
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Ambidexterity

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How many times in your life have you been able to shoot a wholely unfamiliar firearm by GURPS standards? It's a fairly high bar...
Is it? Even changing cartridges invokes a RAW familiarity penalty. The Colt SAA, the M9, the M4, the M249, the AKM, and .50 cal. matchlock muskets all have penalties from each other for at least one of the things on B199 and that's just a few of the different weapons I've fired off the top of my head.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:48 PM   #29
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Ambidexterity

I think guns have one of the shortest familiarizing time frame out of all skills.
They're carefully designed to be as user friendly and idiot proof as possible. Of course that doesn't help when the designers are "idiots".
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:59 PM   #30
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Ambidexterity

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Is it? Even changing cartridges invokes a RAW familiarity penalty. The Colt SAA, the M9, the M4, the M249, the AKM, and .50 cal. matchlock muskets all have penalties from each other for at least one of the things on B199 and that's just a few of the different weapons I've fired off the top of my head.
I was taking "wholely unfamiliar" to mean achieving the maximal unfamiliarity penalty, not achieving any unfamiliarity penalty.
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