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Old 03-14-2006, 05:11 PM   #21
William
 
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Default Re: Greater Deities

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris the cynic
Something I don't understand, probably covered at length in more than one supplement I don't have, how can etherals be killed?

I mean lets say one morning I've got a million people worshiping Bob the Big Guy in the Sky, and then Urial comes along in the afternoon and kills Bob the Big Guy in the Sky.

But tomorrow morning I've still got a million people worshiping, and believing in, Bob the Big Guy in the Sky.

If etherals are created by belief how can they be destroyed without either wiping out or converting their believers?
Well, Bob Himself can be killed, and then the Essence generated by his believers may or may not coalesce into another ethereal. There are lots of things people believe in that don't make ethereals. Vice versa, killing Bob cuts out a lot of the support structure he used to answer worshipers' prayers, which cuts into his believer base eventually. Obviously, the less likely ethereal generation is (and in my campaign, it's pretty unlikely; Nybbas' control over media exposure boosts your chances so much that some ethereals are panting to do the Famous Prince favors), the more effective this strategy will be.

Finally, even if a new Bob does coalesce, he may hear about what happened to his predecessor and decide to lay off the humans, considering the consequences. Now you just have to wean his worshipers away.
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:55 PM   #22
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Default Re: Greater Deities

In the case where the worship remains, but the Ethereal has been killed, one likely result is another Ethereal definining their Image to become the worshiped Deity, and by such means fill the void (seizing the power generated by the worship). There would probably be a fierce and deadly competition to become the new Deity.
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Old 03-15-2006, 06:44 AM   #23
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Default Re: Greater Deities

*nod* Depending on what killed Bob, of course.

And the New Bob might not show up immediately. And New Bob might have a lot of Essence to play with, but only be a 7-Force newly awakened figment for a while, taking time to get up to power-level and without a lot of the skills and Song (or, depending on strands, even powers!) of Old Bob. During that time, New Bob is a lot more vulnerable to other New Bobs, other ethereals in general who want a snack, and whatever killed Old Bob.

(Tsayadim probably spent a lot of their time whacking little Zeuses and the like, for instance...)
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Old 03-15-2006, 04:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: Greater Deities

So if there are a lot of believers and they are not stopped, and it is likely to coalesce, the effect of killing Bob is not to get rid of Bob (Bob being defined as the manifestation of belief in Bob rather than a specific ethereal), but rather to rob Bob of forces experience and skills (memories too) so that one can keep on killing Bob quickly with little effort (thus keeping Bob from gaining power enough to do much) until the believers all drift away?
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Old 03-16-2006, 04:52 PM   #25
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Default Re: Greater Deities

Well, it does get rid of Bob. The problem is that it may not get rid of successors who believe themselves to be Bob, and who can step into Bob's shoes. (The memories, the actual entity that was soul-killed... That's gone.) But yes, it does mean that it's easier to get rid of Bob 2, Bob 3, and so on -- and Bob won't be able to do the miracles that his believers may want, which might make them a little disillusioned and inclined to not just drift away, but perhaps to worship something else.

Say, the One Pure God...
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Old 03-20-2006, 12:33 AM   #26
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Default Re: Greater Deities

Having thought more about the subject I present My list of Greater Deities circa 2006 AD:

Siva
Visnu
Pravati
Laksmi
Odin
Athena
Apollo
Isis
Legba
at least one more Loa...
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Last edited by zogo; 04-18-2006 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:46 AM   #27
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Default Re: Greater Deities

Loki appeared early in the Revelations Cycle (the Marches, I think? The same place where Thor showed up). He was most definitely not a Greater Deity; IMHO, the only Aesir who has achieved/retained Greater Deity status is Odin.

According to the GMG, all three of the "Hindu trinity" are depicted as being almost as powerful as the weakest Superior, making them the most powerful of the Ethereals; if that doesn't qualify as Greater Deities, I don't know what does.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:56 AM   #28
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Default Re: Greater Deities

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Originally Posted by dataweaver
He was most definitely not a Greater Deity; IMHO, the only Aesir who has achieved/retained Greater Deity status is Odin.

According to the GMG, all three of the "Hindu trinity" are depicted as being almost as powerful as the weakest Superior, making them the most powerful of the Ethereals; if that doesn't qualify as Greater Deities, I don't know what does.
I might cross Loki off the list then...

See my arguments upthread IMO making Brahma a greater deity is based on a misinterpretation of Hinduism as it really exists. Brahma has nearly no worship In the real world.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:59 AM   #29
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Default Re: Greater Deities

Doesn't matter much; in the In Nomine setting, the Hindu religion is unique in that it is both pagan and divine; as such, the top three (if not the others) get to subsist on Essence that's on its way to Heaven, not just Essence collected from worship. And IN didn't make an exception for Brahma when it described the power levels of the top Hindu Deities; whether it's likely or not, Brahma's status as a Greater God is all but canon.
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:01 AM   #30
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Default Re: Greater Deities

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Originally Posted by dataweaver
And IN didn't make an exception for Brahma when it described the power levels of the top Hindu Deities; whether it's likely or not, Brahma's status as a Greater God is all but canon.
I'd guess that describing Brahma as greater was based on a common Western misperception of Hinduism (that Brahma is an important deity) rather than a desire to make a deity that was suprisingly more powerful than worship would indicate, but even if it was an attempt at a mystery, IMC Brahma isn't going to be a Greater Deity.

It may be relevant that the distinction between an 18 Force god and a Greater Deity (and the difference between an 18 Force Word Bound and a Superior) is somewhat diminished IMC relative to canon.
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