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Old 02-06-2006, 06:29 PM   #11
zogo
 
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Default Re: Greater Deities

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Originally Posted by Glamourweaver
I guess I'm looking more to the myths themselves and then equating beings power with their relative importance there, then altering said power relative to whats happend with the Purity Crusade-on.
See I'm coming at this from the perspective that mythology is only partly true and partly propaganda and that what gives an Ethereal power is belief and worship. Bhrama has very little worship so IMC he's probably only 12-15 forces, wheras Vishnu, Lakshmi, Parvati, and Siva are the most worshiped beings that In Nomine characterizes as Ethereals.
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: Greater Deities

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Originally Posted by zogo
See I'm coming at this from the perspective that mythology is only partly true and partly propaganda and that what gives an Ethereal power is belief and worship. Bhrama has very little worship so IMC he's probably only 12-15 forces, wheras Vishnu, Lakshmi, Parvati, and Siva are the most worshiped beings that In Nomine characterizes as Ethereals.
I guess its just a matter of not wanting to rule the Hindu Pantheon as nothing more than pagan Ethereals... like I said I want there to be enough power and truth in Hinduism in setting to confuse Angels & hold off direct opposition. Brahm being as powerful and important as he is cosmologically without direct worship could be one such aspect.
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Greater Deities

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Originally Posted by Glamourweaver
I guess its just a matter of not wanting to rule the Hindu Pantheon as nothing more than pagan Ethereals.
THAT is a valid reason to make Brahma a greater deity. I prefer to use Buddhism and Taoism as my sources of ambiguity, and Hinduism as an example of thriving Ethereal worship in the modern day.
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Old 02-07-2006, 04:12 PM   #14
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I just can't see her aspects giving her enough power. I rather think of her as the brains of the operation and the two others as the brawn.
For the Greek gods, the ones who strongly represent modern concepts and ideals would be the strongest, I would think -

1) Athena's domain is all areas of technical skill from crafts to warcraft. I suspect that technique/technical skill and intelligence are even more valued in today's society than in ancient Greece. Hephaestus might be a contender for this domain in areas strictly technological, or subsidiary to her.

2) Apollo fits as a Greater God, because of his varied domains - music, healing (it's him the Hippocratic Oath is sworn to), reason (arguably science by extension), prophecy, light - although his portfolio has diminished somewhat since the Enlightenment, when he was probably paramount.

3) Dionysos fits as well, as the deity not only of wine, but essentially of sex, drugs, and rock and roll, and revelation through them. You can argue that Kesey, Morrison, and many others were devotees.

4) Hermes is actually a contender - he's not just a messenger, he's the deity of commerce (certainly revered in today's world) and communications on the one hand, and thieves and passage to the land of the dead on the other. His image is before us in forms ranging from the FTD logo to a statue in the fountain at my local shopping center. He's probably taken a keen interest in modern developments ranging from the Internet and wi-fi, to Lacan's deconstruction of language, to the Enron scandal, to the success of TV shows about mediums...
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Old 02-07-2006, 07:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: Greater Deities

Hermes would be a contender, but he's AWOL at the moment.

If for balance reasons I felt that I wanted to include him, but didn't want to make him a Greater Deity, my explanation would be that Zeus sent him as an emissary to negotiate peace with Uriel & got his Forces decimated by the Archangel before escaping.
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Old 02-07-2006, 08:11 PM   #16
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Default Re: Greater Deities

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Originally Posted by Blackwing
I just can't see her aspects giving her enough power. I rather think of her as the brains of the operation and the two others as the brawn.

Of course, I have a hard time believing that anyone today really believes in the old Roman/Greek gods. Apollo's and Dionysus' power would come from their aspects and not so much from direct worship. Arts, disease and debauchery are doing more than fine...
(1) Brains are where the power is, on the Ethereal plane. Go take a look at which stats Eth Forces go to. ;)

(2) Ethereals get power from mindshare, of which worship is only one aspect. Pop media spawns Ethereals just as readily as congregations in temples do.

(2a) Project Athena @ MIT spawned a generation of computer geeks who would refer to going online as "going to worship Athena now." (They also said things like "There's only one woman in my life and her name is Athena...") Just sayin'.

(3) Athena's portfolio includes all manner of craft, the work of the mind and hand of man. We live in a very technological age. She's also known as a weaver...

...yes, the internet (including, but not limited to the web) is /very/ much within her scope. I suspect she's cut an under-the-table deal with Jean.
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Old 02-08-2006, 11:08 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Jennifer
(2) Ethereals get power from mindshare, of which worship is only one aspect. Pop media spawns Ethereals just as readily as congregations in temples do.
Sure, but they aren't Greater Gods. IMC, there are not going to be Greater Gods Bruce Lee, Superman, Santa Clause or Mulder and Scully. That way lies madness! ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer
(2a) Project Athena @ MIT spawned a generation of computer geeks who would refer to going online as "going to worship Athena now." (They also said things like "There's only one woman in my life and her name is Athena...") Just sayin'.
Really? I've never heard of that. But MIT people aren't really numerous. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer
(3) Athena's portfolio includes all manner of craft, the work of the mind and hand of man. We live in a very technological age. She's also known as a weaver...

...yes, the internet (including, but not limited to the web) is /very/ much within her scope. I suspect she's cut an under-the-table deal with Jean.
Are Ethereals as capable of stretching their aspects as Celestials are about their Words? Shouldn't new technology spawn new ethereals instead of feeding the old? Athena was spawned and lived thousands of years in a world were crafts meant pottery or curing hides.

Granted, I'm not wild about the Wordstretching Jean has done in canon. IMC Jean is a minor WB and eventually I'll have an Archangel of Science.

I forgot all about Hermes. All the commerce gods must be doing well.
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Old 02-08-2006, 11:43 AM   #18
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Default Re: Greater Deities

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Originally Posted by Blackwing
Sure, but they aren't Greater Gods. IMC, there are not going to be Greater Gods Bruce Lee, Superman, Santa Clause or Mulder and Scully. That way lies madness! ;)
Maybe not each of them individually, but manifestions of pop culture in general (ala American Gods) could make the cut.
Also, certain extraordinarily strong concepts might make it, in certain periods. I could see making Uncle Sam a Greater God (but don't call him that!), especially if the campaign is set ~50 years back, when patriotism was stronger in the US.
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Old 03-14-2006, 03:09 AM   #19
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Default Re: Greater Deities

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Originally Posted by RadLilim
I'd love to see what Attunements you'd come up with on these.

I don't remember my EPG off the top of my head, but do you think any Aztec, American-Indian or Dreamtime Gods might still be Greater level? At least one from each would be cool, IMO.
My thoughts on that is that I wanted to parallel their history with their worshipers:

The Totems of the Peoples & the Dreamtimes Spirits certainly had their tethers destroyed by Uriel in his Crusade, but were for the most part comparatively unskathed. They fled into the Marches early and so avoided his direct assaults. Their massive worship & Essence suplies (once again: comparatively) allowed them to hold their ground in the Marches before Uriel was recalled.

skip ahead several hundred years: worshipers & slaughtered in mass & forcibly converted to Christianity. Those who are spared are accultrated into Western civilization (as second class citizens for the most part, but acculturated none the less). The power of the Totems & Dreamtime spirits is devestated... and the Tsayadim seize the opportunity for some "ethnic" cleansing of their own...

It is only due to the secret mechanations of a Heavenly conspiracy involving Jordi, Novalis, Blandine, & Eli to help smuggle spirits & domains deeper into the Marches that these Pantheons survive at all.
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Old 03-14-2006, 02:59 PM   #20
chris the cynic
 
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Default Re: Greater Deities

Something I don't understand, probably covered at length in more than one supplement I don't have, how can etherals be killed?

I mean lets say one morning I've got a million people worshiping Bob the Big Guy in the Sky, and then Urial comes along in the afternoon and kills Bob the Big Guy in the Sky.

But tomorrow morning I've still got a million people worshiping, and believing in, Bob the Big Guy in the Sky.

If etherals are created by belief how can they be destroyed without either wiping out or converting their believers?

-

If one is to destroy a thing of belief I would think that the only way would be a mematic conflict, fighting to change peoples mind. I really need to get the Etheral Guide.
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