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Old 11-27-2014, 03:57 PM   #51
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

D to X seems confined to 8.04 while 8.05.3 calls for "normal effects".
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Old 11-27-2014, 05:06 PM   #52
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
D to X seems confined to 8.04 while 8.05.3 calls for "normal effects".
Those "normal effects" would be 6.07:
* SHVY as if Mk 1 (so do whatever 8.05.2 says).
* Armor vs Ogre is 1 or 2 treads, armor destroyed.
* GEV vs armor is attack at 2x GEV strength, GEV destroyed.
* Armor vs train relies on a variety of odds (see 9.05), but the train will already be destroyed per 9.04.
* HVY (or non-Ogre SHVY) vs building is a 1:2 attack on the armor (see 11.04.3).

So, there are only two cases where my D-to-X would matter: GEVs ramming armor and HVY ramming buildings.

***
For GEVs, there are two dicta I think are important:
* 6.07.3 -- "it is assumed the GEV is firing its weapons as it rams".
* 8.04 -- "shots at close range will be better aimed. However, these well-aimed shots mean that units receiving a D result during an overrun are considered destroyed, instead of just disabled."

Both these rules seem to make a common assumption, and so combining them probably is incorrect. Roughly, doubling the attack strength is similar to changing all the Ds into Xs, so a GEV will cause similar damage firing or ramming.

Conclusion: the 8.05.3 "normal effect" for ramming by GEVs seems reasonable -- the GEV gets a normal attack at 2x strength.

***
As for HVY (or armor-like SHVY) vs buildings -- that should be so rare that no special case is applied: do whatever the GEV attack does for Ds.

Example: in the first fire round, the HVY fired at the building for 16 SP (4x4) and survived. Now, should it ram?
* No ram: 4x4 SP damage in second fire round.
* Ram: 2/3 chance of 1d6 + 4x4 damage; 1/6 chance of 1d6 + 4x2 damage; 1/6 chance of 1d6 + 0 damage. Expectation is 3.5 + 12 damage.

Slightly favors no ram, even more when considering the chance of surviving to a third fire round (not the building) or a future turn. Maybe with exception of a 20 SP building, where there is a 1/3 chance of being free to attack something else at full strength in second fire round (4+ on the building die and 1-4 on the HVY die).

(The SHVY case is shifted in favor of the ram: 2d6 + 18 vs 24.)

***

Summary
So, running 8.05.3 without a D-is-X rule looks okay to me. (I'd remembered 8.04 being more broad and GEVs actually causing ram damage, not close range firing damage.)

8.05.2 is consistent with a D-is-X rule for non-SHVY, but it could be an unexplained case of enhanced damage. And this brings us back to Henry's question of what does 8.05.2 say about SHVY.

Since even an Ogre-like SHVY is subject to more damage than a Mark 1 in ramming (and SHVY are underpriced), I'd be fine with reading 8.05.2 to mean that both armor-like and Ogre-like SHVY are destroyed when rammed in overrun by an Ogre.

Something worthy of a FAQ clarification.
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:37 PM   #53
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

The rules updates:
4.02 Phases of a turn (p. 10)
  • Step 1(b) should say “On a roll of 3 to 6, the unit recovers . . .” instead of “1 to 4”
  • Step 3 should say “. . . to check whether it is stuck or disabled.”
Should also be applied to the Reference Sheet (only step 5 is currently listed).

Additionally, step 2(a) should be changed to refer to rolling for stuck (both in the rules and the Reference Sheet).

However, the current wording:
Quote:
Disable check. Roll for each armor unit which entered swamp or rubble, and each GEV which entered swamp/rubble/forest, to check whether it is disabled. Units which rolled for disabling in step 2 do not roll again.
May not actually need to be changed (at least, not the way it's currently proposed). The problem is it may not make sense to lump "stuck" together with "disabled." The proposed change would imply ALL units have the potential to be stuck or disabled when, in fact, only heavy tracked units can become stuck (and NOT disabled).


The terrain effects table for INF should be changed to "Same as Swamp" for Forest and Rubble to make wording consistent. This doesn't change anything, just something to be noted in the event of a Rules reprint.
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Old 09-12-2015, 10:26 PM   #54
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

Another FAQ item regarding GEV and INF Road bonuses...

There are two types of hex with both road and railroad; parallel and crossing.

If a GEV or INF is on a road and they come to a hex that also has a railroad, can they transition from road to railroad and retain the road bonus?
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Old 09-13-2015, 07:54 AM   #55
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

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Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
There are two types of hex with both road and railroad; parallel and crossing.

If a GEV or INF is on a road and they come to a hex that also has a railroad, can they transition from road to railroad and retain the road bonus?
For INF, definitely yes.

For GEV, yes for Ogre KISS.
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:11 PM   #56
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
Another FAQ item regarding GEV and INF Road bonuses...

There are two types of hex with both road and railroad; parallel and crossing.

If a GEV or INF is on a road and they come to a hex that also has a railroad, can they transition from road to railroad and retain the road bonus?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalend View Post
For INF, definitely yes.

For GEV, yes for Ogre KISS.
I agree.

And although I think KISS is more than enough to allow the GEV bonus, if you think about rail and road junctions, they are smooth with an easy transition from one to the other, so I think it is reasonable in a "real world" sense as well.

D.
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:27 PM   #57
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

That's how I see it as well (and have been playing it). I'm putting it out here so it's documented.

The crossings are an easy sell, but the parallel situation is a little less obvious. KISS would have them be the same to make the rule easy.
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Old 09-13-2015, 07:35 PM   #58
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

Even with the parallel situation, remember the roads we're seeing on the map are only the major thoroughfares. There are undoubtedly many small roads crossing over and back of the rail from the major road. These would be smooth enough to justify no loss of the bonus.

But as mentioned, KISS rules all anyway!

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Old 09-13-2015, 11:00 PM   #59
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf90 View Post
rail and road junctions ... are smooth with an easy transition from one to the other, so I think it is reasonable in a "real world" sense as well.
Yuppers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf90 View Post
KISS rules all anyway!
Yuppers.

Part of Ogre's charm is its simplicity, so KISS rules, fo sho.
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Old 10-18-2015, 01:52 AM   #60
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

Are the VP values for Trucks listed anywhere? It seems unlikely that they are worth the standard 6 VP since they aren't exactly "armor units."
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