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Old 10-16-2017, 09:13 AM   #1
GranitePenguin
 
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Default When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

So... I reported a bug that the Mark IV Ogre in the video game has only 56 treads, but looking at the 6th Edition information that is, in fact, what is on the Reference sheets.

The Mark IV has been 60 treads from 1978-2000 in the boardgame; when was that decision made and why?

From what I can tell, this is Ogre Miniatures bleeding into the rules, where the Mark IV has 56 treads. It's subtle, but I feel like it's wrong.

What's the "correct" number of treads? I don't mean "just because it's printed in ODE as 56" either. I mean, was some decision tree used and 56 the "new official" number, or was it an oversight to use 56 instead of 60 and it needs errata?
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Old 10-16-2017, 09:39 AM   #2
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Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

Interesting catch. There's the 'OGRE/GEV' combo pack (ISBN 1-55634-426-0) circa 2k and the 'Deluxe GEV' minis set. What do those show?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
So... I reported a bug that the Mark IV Ogre in the video game has only 56 treads, but looking at the 6th Edition information that is, in fact, what is on the Reference sheets.

The Mark IV has been 60 treads from 1978-2000 in the boardgame; when was that decision made and why?

From what I can tell, this is Ogre Miniatures bleeding into the rules, where the Mark IV has 56 treads. It's subtle, but I feel like it's wrong.

What's the "correct" number of treads? I don't mean "just because it's printed in ODE as 56" either. I mean, was some decision tree used and 56 the "new official" number, or was it an oversight to use 56 instead of 60 and it needs errata?
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Old 10-16-2017, 10:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

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Interesting catch. There's the 'OGRE/GEV' combo pack (ISBN 1-55634-426-0) circa 2k and the 'Deluxe GEV' minis set. What do those show?
Like I said, EVERY version of the boardgame prior to ODE, from 1st Ed G.E.V. to the one you reference (i.e., the last item with G.E.V. rules produced before ODE) has 60 treads.

56 treads was introduced in OM (in 1992), and somehow made it into ODE/6th ed rules. I think that's an error, especially since later releases of the boardgame used 60.
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

The 56 tread units was probably because range and movement in Ogre Miniatures are measured in hexes, and 1 hex = 2 inches. So the Mark IV's movement of 4 hexes comes out to 8 inches. Since destroying each set of treads decreases movement by the same amount, the number of treads had to be divisible by the move rate. And because 60 is not divisible by eight, the author went with 56 instead.
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

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The 56 tread units was probably because range and movement in Ogre Miniatures are measured in hexes, and 1 hex = 2 inches. So the Mark IV's movement of 4 hexes comes out to 8 inches. Since destroying each set of treads decreases movement by the same amount, the number of treads had to be divisible by the move rate. And because 60 is not divisible by eight, the author went with 56 instead.
A plausible reason, but that doesn't explain how it got into ODE (besides me missing the opportunity to flag it in 2012). :-(
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Old 10-16-2017, 07:51 PM   #6
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Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

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Originally Posted by Desert Scribe View Post
Since destroying each set of treads decreases movement by the same amount, the number of treads had to be divisible by the move rate. And because 60 is not divisible by eight, the author went with 56 instead.
Sounds plausible to me (said the one who probably did it).
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Old 10-16-2017, 08:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

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Sounds plausible to me (said the one who probably did it).
So the question still remains. Should it be 56 or 60? Should it be different for the Boardgame vs Minis?
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Old 10-16-2017, 09:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

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So the question still remains. Should it be 56 or 60? Should it be different for the Boardgame vs Minis?
IIRC (and I may not, my memory gets worse every day...), during the ODE rules discussion it was decided to reduce it from 60 to 56 to ensure that the numbers were the same for hex vs. minis. And given that an M4 Mk IV is hard enough to kill, it was deemed better to reduce to 56 than to increase to 64(!)...
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Old 10-16-2017, 10:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

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IIRC (and I may not, my memory gets worse every day...), during the ODE rules discussion it was decided to reduce it from 60 to 56 to ensure that the numbers were the same for hex vs. minis. And given that an M4 Mk IV is hard enough to kill, it was deemed better to reduce to 56 than to increase to 64(!)...
I don't recall that discussion, but I suppose it's theoretically possible I missed it.
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Old 10-17-2017, 08:44 AM   #10
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Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

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I don't recall that discussion, but I suppose it's theoretically possible I missed it.
Given how much rules discussion was flying around back then, I know I missed some of it. I also don't remember this one getting much discussion, at least compared to things like the SHVY...
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